Liza Donnelly: From New Yorker Cartoonist to Digital Storyteller and Advocate

Name: Liza Donnelly: Political Cartoons, Connection, Hope | Turn the Lens #05
Uploaded: 2026-01-13T01:26:33.785210+00:00
Channel: Turn the Lens with Jeff Frick
Description: Summary and key takeaways on Liza Donnelly: From New Yorker Cartoonist to Digital Storyteller and Advocate, covering Introduction Jeff Frick welcomes Liza

Turn the Lens with Jeff Frick

Jan 13, 2026

•

3 min read

YouTube video ID: sStEQscyFlQ

Source: YouTube video by Turn the Lens with Jeff Frick — Watch original video

PDF

Introduction

Jeff Frick welcomes Liza Donnelly, a veteran cartoonist and illustrator known for her work in The New Yorker, UN engagements, TED talks, and a recent solo show at the Norman Rockwell Museum.

Early Life and Career

Beginnings: Inspired by a gift of drawing materials from her mother at age seven; grew up in Washington, D.C. during the civil‑rights era and wanted to be a political cartoonist.
First Break: After college, The New Yorker purchased her first political cartoon in 1984, launching a decades‑long relationship with the magazine.
Style: Simple, observational cartooning that captures speakers’ posture, attire, and key phrases, often translating complex data‑science talks into relatable visuals.

Evolution of the Work

From Print to Politics: Initially focused on print illustration; after 9/11 she returned to political satire, especially on women’s rights, using both traditional outlets and the internet.
Live Drawing: Pioneered real‑time sketching of events (State of the Union, Oscars, Grammy Awards) on an iPad, sharing instantly on Twitter and Instagram.
Digital Platforms: Embraced Patreon, Happs TV, and other streaming services to reach audiences directly, bypassing traditional gatekeepers.

Advocacy and Public Speaking

Women in Cartooning: Noticed the scarcity of female cartoonists, authored Funny Ladies (a history of women at The New Yorker) and toured with the book, sparking speaking opportunities.
TED & UN: Delivered multiple TED/TEDx talks; met Kofi Annan through the “Cartooning for Peace” initiative, using cartoons to foster global dialogue.
Feminist Themes: Since 9/11, her work increasingly tackles harassment, abuse, and gender equity, often using humor to soften difficult subjects.

Recent Highlights

Norman Rockwell Exhibit: Hosted a one‑woman show titled Comic Relief at the Rockwell Museum, exploring the parallel between observational art and her own cartooning.
Merchandise & Community: Launched prints, T‑shirts, and mugs featuring her cartoons; engages a loyal online community that watches her daily live‑draw sessions.
Creative Process: Combines quick visual capture of speakers with listening for key phrases; drafts captions and sketches simultaneously, treating each panel as a miniature stage.

Adapting to the Digital Age

Technology Adoption: Uses iPad, Twitter, Instagram, and emerging platforms like Happs TV to stream live drawings and interact with fans.
Monetization Shift: Moves from traditional magazine royalties to direct fan support (Patreon, sponsorships), reducing reliance on advertising intermediaries.
Balancing Act: While metrics influence awareness, she strives not to draw solely for trends, maintaining artistic integrity.

Outlook

Liza plans to continue leveraging live drawing to comment on current events, expand her speaking circuit, and mentor emerging cartoonists, especially women, in navigating the evolving media landscape.

Key Themes

Observation → empathy → illustration
Political satire as a tool for social change
Digital platforms democratizing artistic distribution
Persistence of a quiet voice making loud impact

Liza Donnelly’s journey shows that a simple, observant sketch can evolve from print pages to global stages, proving that authentic storytelling—whether on paper or a livestream—remains a powerful catalyst for conversation, advocacy, and cultural change.

Frequently Asked Questions

Who is Turn the Lens with Jeff Frick on YouTube?

Turn the Lens with Jeff Frick is a YouTube channel that publishes videos on a range of topics. Browse more summaries from this channel below.

Does this page include the full transcript of the video?

Yes, the full transcript for this video is available on this page. Click 'Show transcript' in the sidebar to read it.

Summarize another video

Full Transcript YouTube

>> Jeff: See movie, right, showtime.
>> Liza: Things have changed.
>> Yes. Well, welcome back everybody.
Jeff Frick here in the home office.
I'm really excited to
have someone that I met
a few years back at the women
in data science conference
with really a really interesting art form
that I'd never seen kind
of before in practice.
And it turns out she's been doing this
for decades and decades and decades.
She's published in all
kinds of publications.
She spoke to the UN and we're
really happy to have her.
Coming from her home studio
in New York, Liza Donnelly.
Liza, great to see you.
>> Great to see you Jeff.
How are you doing?
>> Terrific.
So you are a phenomenal artist.
So we first met at the Wits conference
and you were doing this
thing I'd never seen before
which was live drawing
the conference speakers.
And I was so kind of touched at the way
that you were able to capture them
and they're kind of the
spirit of their talk
and what they were trying to say
and what I would describe
as relatively simple style
of cartooning.
And I'm just curious to jump in,
we'll just talk about Wits,
when you're looking at somebody on stage
and trying to grasp kind of that energy
and have it come through your hand
and back into under the page,
what are you looking at?
What are you taking in?
>> Well, it's all of it
but to try to analyze it,
the person walks on stage, I
notice what their features,
I notice what they're wearing
and also their body posture.
And I try to capture that quickly.
What I'm also doing
simultaneously is listening
to what they're saying.
So particularly for this
conference you're referring to,
I would try to listen to
and pull out key sentences
or keywords
sometimes in that particular
conference about data science,
I had no idea what they're talking about.
But you could always pull out something
that is relatable to everybody.
>> Right. Well, let's back up a step
'cause your journey started
I think you said to one
of your Ted talks at seven
when your mom gave you some
drawing materials and some paper
and you learned to draw
and you've been a professional animator,
cartoonist artist, illustrator graphic.
I don't know which of those you prefer.
You're kind of all of the above.
We talked a little bit before
at the Witts off camera
about kind of the role of cartoons
and the role of of
graphics and illustrations
in the modern world
and in communicating really hard ideas
and complex ideas and difficult ideas.
You've got a super special talent.
You've been doing it for
the New Yorker for decades.
When you think back on
the role of artists.
And obviously there was the
stuff that happened in France,
when you started out, is that
kind of where you thought
this would go
or how did it kind of
evolve into something
that was kind of more
fun and an expression
into something that's much more powerful,
much more meaningful, much more important
to a broader audience?
>> Oh, well, you know, I
began, as you said, decades ago
and it was all just about print
and I wanted to be in the New Yorker.
I grew up during the civil
rights era, the Watergate time
and assassinations and everything.
And so as a young child,
I was in Washington DC,
as a young child, I wanted
to be a political cartoonist.
So that was already in my system I think
that that's what I wanted to do.
It's just a matter of finding
how to merge the availability
of outlets then with my sensibility
which I'm a quiet person
and at the time I should put it this way,
at the time I thought,
well, I don't think I can
be a political cartoonist
because I don't have
strong enough opinions
because what I saw at the time,
people I really admired like Herblock
and the Washington post
and Gary Trudeau doing Doonesbury
but they're really hard hitting cartoons.
And I didn't know how to do that.
I was such a shy, quiet person
but the New Yorker has always
had political cartoons.
And so I saw the New Yorkers as a teenager
and I thought, well,
maybe I could be there.
And luckily they bought my
work right after college.
So and my first political cartoon
with them was published in 1984.
So the political side
of it was always there
and always tried to do...
The New Yorker political
cartoons are more,
they're less about my opinion
about something as a cartoonist
and more about my observations
of the culture or the political situation.
Like I did something about Tiger Woods.
I'd drawn about Walter Mondale things that
and gender diversity, things like that.
So, but that was just print
not just but at the time it was print
and there were no other outlets
except for other publications.
>> Did you intend on this?
Did you intend on the path
when you started drawing?
Did you see this as an
avenue to express concerns
about really deep topics versus
or did that just kind of evolve over time?
>> I did no, I did
'cause like I said, when I started out
the world seemed to be
falling apart in the 70s.
So I wanted to help and I
felt that was how I could help
is by drawing political cartoons.
And it's evolved of course over time
that I'm more political.
After 9/11 I was just perking
along at the New Yorker
for a couple of decades
and doing illustration for other people.
And I really didn't have an outlet
for a lot of political stuff
but after 9/11 and also
internet it sort of take it off
by that time,
I began to do more and
more political cartoons
and I vowed to be more political
and particularly to focus
more on women's rights
which is something that
I'm passionate about.
If the New Yorker didn't want
it then I could put it online.
There were several new emerging
web scenes they called them
and I could put them online.
Like this one I think
you're showing right now
was a drawing I did,
can't remember exactly who that was for
not the New Yorker
but it's something that I would put online
and get reaction to it.
Get people see it, you know
if the New Yorker didn't want it
or if another publication didn't want it
then I certainly could use it somewhere.
>> Right, so you had
an interesting comment
in one of your Ted talks and
you've done a ton of Ted talks.
I think watched four of them this morning
but one of them you talked about.
>> I'm so sorry.
>> No, no, I love it.
But I talked about when you were young
you drew for your mom, right?
When you first got started.
And then you said then you
drew to try to understand
as you said, growing up
in turbulent times in DC
in the 60s and 70s
but then you talked about
this thing in your 40s
when 9/11 happened
and it sounded like it was a real epiphany
in terms of now I'm just drawing for me.
Like it almost sounded like
that was a step function
in terms of just, you
know, I am going to draw
in kind of a different
way of thinking about,
you know, how you would
draw and what you would draw
and it sounded like a
real epiphany moment.
>> It was, it really was.
'Cause I think like a lot of people,
9/11 sort of shocked us into
all reexamining our lives
and our purpose for being here.
And I think I'd lost that for a bit while,
I had it when I was younger
and then the 80s and
90s I sort of lost it.
I was just enjoying drawing cartoons.
Of course I raised my family.
So that takes time.
But 9/11 I was going to stop cartooning.
I thought, well, I don't see
the point of what I'm doing.
I really was shocked
and maybe I'd go into
teaching or something.
But then I drew that particular cartoon
and then I sent that to you
and it's about 9/11,
the aftermath of 9/11.
>> The when can I stop
being scared I think or not.
>> Yeah, when can I
stop being worried now,
little girl's asking her father.
So the New Yorker bought it
and ran it a couple of months
like a month or two after 9/11.
And I thought, okay, I'm back on track.
But I decided then and there
to do more political cartoons
and I felt that's my purpose.
And also the feminist cartoons started to
be more a part of my life.
>> You got so much stuff.
I don't even know if I want to
ask how many cartoons you have
in your--
>> I have no idea.
>> In your portfolio.
>> I have no idea.
There was a time Jeff, when
I could get somebody to say,
Oh, do you have a cartoon on this subject?
And I go, yeah, I have one.
But now I'm like, I don't know, maybe.
I just don't, yeah.
It's a lot of content and I'm not alone.
So many of us cartoonists,
we produce New Yorker cartoons anyway,
we produce eight to 10 cartoons a week.
Most of them don't see the light of day.
>> But now they can though, right?
Hopefully now you've got different
publishing opportunities.
So shifting gears a little bit,
you know, in terms of you
being kind of, you're quiet
and again, I think your art is quiet.
It's impactful but it's in
a very kind of a soft voice.
This has really opened up opportunities.
You've now spoke at the United Nations.
As we've mentioned, you've
done a ton of Ted talks.
I saw you were getting
your doctoral degree,
putting your robe on for the first time
at the University of Connecticut
and working in some basketball.
But I'm curious, you know,
kind of your perception
of how this career path has
opened up these opportunities
that are far different
than that young woman
walking into the office,
dropping off some cartoons
and hoping something gets
picked for next week.
And if you can reflect on being involved
and meeting with Kofi Annan in the UN
and taking on these really
big kind of challenges.
>> Yeah, I feel incredibly fortunate
not just sort of...
As you're talking, made me
think where this all comes from,
where did it start?
And I think I can, first
of all, being quiet
I don't know why people are quiet.
I don't know why people are shy.
I don't really know
why I was shy and quiet
but I think it was partly
trying to figure out how to fit in.
And my art has helped me fit in,
my art drawing has helped me
figure out a place for myself
which I didn't really
understand when I was young
and also my art spoke for me,
I didn't have to use my mouth.
I could speak with my drawings.
But in the late 1990s
I started to think more seriously
about why there weren't more
women cartoonists practicing
because there just weren't.
And I started and I was on a panel
at the editorial cartoon association
about women cartoonists.
I was one of maybe four
or five women on the panel
and there was a sea of
people in the audience
and they were all men.
They were all male cartoonists
and it just was a visual like shock.
Like, Whoa, there really aren't many of us
and what is this all about?
So I started investigating
particularly the New Yorker
why that was true at the New Yorker.
And I ended up writing a
book about it, Funny Ladies
and it came out 15 years ago.
And just before I forget to tell you,
I have a new edition coming out this fall.
So I'm really excited about that.
But anyway, Funny Ladies
was about the women cartoons
of the New Yorker
and they began, actually the New Yorker
was always pretty welcoming to women.
So there were women there in 1925
and the magazine was founded.
But when I wrote that book
I decided to create myself
a little speaking torques,
the publisher was small,
they wouldn't do for me.
So I created it.
And I went around to various
places in the country
and talked about these women
and because I was talking about something
I was passionate about,
feminism and cartoons and women artists,
it was easy to talk about the subject.
It was easy to share this.
Like I want to share this with you.
This is something that interests me.
So that's where my
speaking abilities began
was talking about my passion
for some other people,
amazing women.
And from there that just morphed into,
I convinced Pat Mitchell to
hire me to do a Ted talk.
The first women, the first Ted women,
which was in Washington DC 10 years ago
and I'll always be grateful to Pat.
And that was a frightening experience
but it was really rewarding
to hear people laugh
'cause I would show my cartoons behind me.
I'm not talking about the cartoon
I'm talking about some other subject
and the cartoon is like
an exclamation point
to whatever I'm saying
or a lightning rod
and it lends lightness to
whatever I'm talking about.
And then from there I was
asked to do more speaking
for more TEDS, TEDXs
and I just think people
love cartoons for one thing.
And they're fascinated with
those of us who do them.
So the combination of seeing the cartoons
and seeing me who creates them
and then also cartoons can
really soften the subject
not soften the subject
but soften the person
so they enter the subject,
the difficult subject,
like you know, 15 years ago,
feminism was not as much of a
accepted concept as it is now.
So the way to talk about stuff.
And I've done a lot of
hard hitting cartoons now
about harassment and abuse
and rape and stuff like that,
which is not funny
but it's a way to bring
people into a subject.
And then the UN was connected with,
that was just such a
thrill to meet Kofi Annan.
That was in connection
with a wonderful group
called Cartooning for Peace.
And that was started right after
the Danish cartoon
controversy, if you recall,
that was in 2005
and actually that was before my Ted talk
but so I got a little speaking in there
but not a whole lot.
I just got to meet Kofi Annan and be...
Cartooning for peace is a
international organization
started by Kofi Annan and John Plantu
to help bring cartoons to
different people around the world
and to have them be facilitators
for conversation and
discussion about global issues.
So it's about 160 people
cartoonist in the organization.
I've met cartoonists
from all over the globe.
It's just wonderful.
We sometimes get together in
different parts of the world
and get to talk about cartoons.
And unfortunately Kofi
Annan just died but he...
You look him up online, you see his,
I think if you go to cartooning for peace
you could see his speech.
It's probably on my website too,
his speech about cartoons.
And he realized how important
cartoons were for our world.
So I'm always grateful to him.
>> You've got a ton of books on Amazon.
I guess I hadn't really
ever thought of you as
in terms of putting all these
things together in a book
but when I pulled up your
author page on Amazon
you got all kinds of great books in here.
>> Yeah, well, yeah.
After funny ladies,
I did a bunch of before
Funny Ladies like collections
and a bunch of dinosaur books for kids
since then I did a couple
more that were about women
and cartooning and women
and feminist writing.
So yeah.
>> Love it. Love it.
One of the things you talked about
and you kind of mentioned it briefly here
in one of your talks is
creativity is about connection.
It's funny that you define creativity
around the actual
subject that's connection
and you talk a lot about really
the importance of listening
and not only listening to the topic
like when we opened up this conversation
but just listening and understanding
and really being observant.
I find it really refreshing, right?
'Cause I think so many
people in this crazy world
that we live in, that's going so, so fast,
you know, don't necessarily
take a minute just to sit back,
open their eyes and pay attention
and see the world around them.
And those are, some of your
probably less powerful cartoons
but still really intimate ones
are just like a person
in the subway station
or a person out on the streets
obviously not doing as much
of that in New York anymore
as I know you wish you would
but just this kind of appreciation
of the communication of the moment
of just the beauty of
small moments I think
is a whole another class
of ones that you kick out
that I think are just as
beautiful and just as touching.
So really, really good stuff.
>> I love life.
And it's all about
appreciating what's around you.
You're making me think
about recent documentary
I watched some of it about Andrew Wyeth
and that's the time I sort of
grew up into the art world,
watching the art world
and Jackson Pollock was
still around doing his thing.
So the contrast between
Jackson and Andrew Wyeth
and then Norman Rockwell too,
there's interesting differences
in how they approach art.
Like Jackson Pollock was all internal,
like expressing oneself.
Whereas Wyeth and Rockwell
were more observers,
more looking at the world around them.
And I know that Wyeth, both Wyeth
and at the time, Wyeth and Rockwell
were not appreciated
by the critics so much
because that's a whole another story.
But I think Wyeth, in this documentary
Wyeth talks about how he
would spend weeks on end
with his subjects, you know,
he'd go and live with them.
He'd spend time with these people.
So he not only could
see them and draw them,
he didn't take photographs,
you can draw them
but he knew who they were.
He got to know these people,
he got to feel who they were
and it certainly is reflected
in his portraits that he did.
>> Right, well, that's funny
you segued that just perfectly.
I had it teed up and
everything with this guy.
So what a great honor
that you had earlier,
I guess last year now,
we've turned the calendar
to have your your one-woman show
at the Norman Rockwell museum.
And I was fortunate that
they had a nice live stream
as you kind of walked around,
actually, it was the
genesis of this conversation
and talked about a bunch of the pieces
that they had on display.
Norman Rockwell I mean, it
doesn't get much more iconic
and kind of across everyone
at least here in the United
States as to his art.
I wonder if you can kind of
share what that meant to you,
what was it like to actually be there
and you spent time
working there too as well,
if I believe, correct?
>> Yeah.
Oh my God, what a thrill,
what a shock to get that email
from Stephanie, who's the curator
to invite me to have a
show there this summer,
this last summer, one in the fall.
>> It's funny because a lot
of kids watching this right
they don't know the Saturday Evening Post.
They don't understand a time when
even like the Brady Bunch,
just to pick some more poppy
went when everybody watched the same thing
or consume the same thing.
It's so different than
today's hyper personalization.
I don't even know if
they can kind of gronk
(indistinct)
>> Rockwell was, and of
course I was aware of him
when I was growing up
but my family were New Yorker readers.
And there was probably a
distinct difference between
New Yorker readers and The
Saturday Evening post readers
which were more middle America, right?
And he had a cover,
although he was a New Yorker
but he wanted to be a great illustrator
and he ended up being one
but he ended up doing covers
for The Saturday Evening
Post every month, I guess
almost every month.
And that's why he became so famous
not to belittle the fact that
he was an incredible illustrator, artist
but yeah he was extremely well known
and he went to the White House
and he was a humble man, funny
and I was aware of him growing up.
And so when Stephanie wrote me and said,
would you like to have a one woman show?
I was blown away.
And of course I'm going to do this.
And I spent the next couple of months
going through my archives to
figure out what to give her.
And I did a lot of back
and forth with her on that,
what the point of the exhibit was.
It was a one woman show
but it was also, she wanted to express
it was called comic relief.
So she wanted to get at the
heart of what I try to do,
which is talk about serious subjects
but yet make people
feel better, feel good,
feel optimistic or think
about something seriously.
So, yeah and it opened in July
and we had an online virtual opening,
which you can see online, I think
and they're actually making
the exhibit now, it's closed
but they're making it
into an online exhibit,
so you can see.
And you can go there now
and see a lot of what
was in the show then.
But it was a great honor.
And so during that time period,
I read his autobiography.
I'm not reading the biography
that was written about him
but I read a lot about him.
And I watched a lot of videos,
there are some videos
online about Rockwell.
And I began to see a connection
between the two of us,
even though our work is really
almost polar opposite in look.
But he was an observer of
life, of American life.
And people have criticized him
for just observing a
certain class of people,
a certain demographic
and he did, because it was
for The Saturday Evening Post,
he had his restrictions
by working for them.
They didn't want to have
black people on the cover
in any kind of prominent way.
If they were on the cover,
they were in subservient roles.
He wasn't allowed to make people smoking
but some other things too
but it was his living and it was his work.
And he did the best
and he made, I think
when he was with the post
he did sneak in some commentary
in there a little bit
if you look closely at the work
but it wasn't until he
left The Saturday Post
he began to do paintings
that were much harder hitting
and for himself really,
although they were for the
look magazine at the time
and they were other civil rights era
and the like the killing
of the Mississippi murders,
Schwerner and those guys who were murdered
down in Mississippi, he
did a painting about that.
So he began to be much more expressive
and use his skills to talk
about important social issues
with his painting.
So, and with me, I think
there's something similar there
in that I spent a lot of my
decades just drawing cartoons
for the New Yorker, which I really enjoyed
but then it wasn't until 9/11 hit
that I really began to
do some soul searching
and think that I got to do something more
with what I have available, my skill.
And so you learn to
work within the confines
of your employer or the the
magazine that you work for.
And for him, The Post
was the pinnacle for him,
for his illustration,
the New Yorker is the pinnacle for me
and I'm still working there.
But there are gatekeepers there.
And there's people that
have their opinions
and you have to work within the controls.
So it's a trade off.
>> So that's again, another great segue
of something I want to get
into and how that's changed.
And, you know, kind of
generally distribution
was in control.
Why does William Randolph
first build a beautiful house
down at San Simeon?
It's because the newspapers had control,
distribution had control
back in the old days.
You work in a digital art form.
Now you've got there's tons and tons
of channels of distribution.
I've got this little laptop pulled up
and I've got all of Liza's stuff.
You got your beautiful WordPress site.
You've got Twitter,
you've got media
and you've got Instagram,
you got this new thing Happs,
I've never heard of Happs, I
don't even know what Happs is,
I need to find out what
Happs is all about.
You got these beautiful
profiles on the New Yorker.
You're an accomplished author in Amazon.
So there's so many channels now.
So I was, you know, like
most things in life, right?
The same side of the
coin can be good or bad.
How are you kind of adapting
to the new kind of digital
distribution world?
What's kind of your approach?
Is it super exciting?
Is it super confusing?
Is it overwhelming?
You're clearly embracing a
lot of these kind of new tools
and new opportunities.
How has that kind of
changed your relationship
with your primary employer
or the way you think about your art
or and you know, kind of your relationship
with people that you
would have never, ever met
because you just dropped off the art
and then read it in the paper.
>> That's a good question.
I think it started to...
I love technology.
I'm not educated in it
but I like to adopt anything that new,
pretty much any new
technology that comes along
but I began doing live
drawing like you described
at the top of this interview on my iPad.
I began doing that.
I should get a date and have a date ready
but now it must be five years ago
by drawing what I saw
on the television set.
Like the first thing I drew,
I think was the state of
the union address that year,
which I always watch
because I think it's kind of fascinating.
It can be very boring but
it's also fascinating.
And I was drawing it and
Twitter was relatively new.
Well, no it wasn't.
Anyway, I was on Twitter
but the app I was using was new
and you could draw something
and then send it out to me on Twitter.
And I started doing that, I
was drawing just the people
Speaking Obama, I think it was.
And I saw the reaction.
I saw people loving it
'cause my drawings can be bold and bright
and often without words.
So at the time it was
quite different for Twitter
to see a flash of color going by like that
that wasn't a photograph.
And so people started
following me because of that.
And I started doing the
Oscars, the Grammys, you know
anything that I sensed was
a national or global event.
I would live draw it and
put it out on social media
also now Instagram.
And I began to notice
that that was something
that I could do
and now people hire me to do it.
So that's nice.
And I get to go to the Oscars.
We can talk about that, I guess.
But the whole point
when we saying that was,
I began to say, well, maybe
I don't need the big media.
I mean, I do have the New
Yorker name attached to my work
and that people associate me
with that wonderful magazine.
So I have that and I'm
very grateful for that
but getting my work out there
and communicating with an audience
is something that I do.
And I do it now on all
these different platforms.
And it's confusing sometimes
but I think and I'm not the
only one that's doing this,
so many people are doing this now,
we were talking about that earlier
and I have a Patrion now.
So I'm trying to tap into the audiences
in a thoughtful manner
that I have out there.
I have a lot of people
that say they like my work.
And so I try to communicate with them.
I try to answer all tweets coming at me
that are asking a question or
commenting positively on me
or Instagram.
Patrion is new to me but I'm trying to,
I have a few sponsors, so
I'm trying to figure out
how to give back to them.
And yeah, so I know I'm
not the only one doing this
but it's I think it's
the way of the future
because I think the big media companies
everybody's kind of tired
of having to work through a gatekeeper.
>> Well, the other thing
that strikes me about right
is its advertising
and right now the way the
money flows say to you
on a picture that's in the New Yorker
is somebody has to advertise
coffee or water or whatever
and they get their piece.
And a piece of it goes to you
where if you're directly getting paid
by somebody on Patrion or Happs
and they give you a couple bucks
or they sponsor you for
the year or something,
you've kind of taken
this advertising piece
out of the middle of the equation
which I think is fascinating.
The other thing is that
the advertising model
is built on broadcasting.
It's built on really big numbers.
And I think this whole kind
of bifurcation that we see
in the internet age
where you have big, massive
things like the Academy awards
which is probably fading a little bit
where everybody participates,
Superbowl, that type of thing.
And then you have you can
kind of hyper specialization
at the complete opposite in
and it's that ugly middle,
which is a pretty dangerous place to be
from a distribution point of view.
But it allows you to have
micro audiences of people
that really, really like what you do,
the way that you do it, who you are
and to have this direct connection
but has it been rewarding?
Are you getting...
I imagine it's got to
be a ton of cartoons.
So you said you did eight to 10 a week
that never saw the light of day
that suddenly now you've got a vehicle
to bring those things to life
because maybe they were
too edgy for the New Yorker
or they just didn't like them
or maybe it was a bad day
or maybe one of your
competitors just had better
for whatever reason
because now all this stuff comes out
and gets to see the light of day.
>> Yeah, I mean, usually now I
do new stuff for my audiences
on those platforms.
Sometimes I'll bring out an old Kurt,
you know rejecting her cartoon
but it's very rewarding.
I spent my early part of my career
not knowing that people like my work
and you just depend on the editor
if they like it, they'll buy it
and then they run it and then that's it.
You don't hear anything back.
I mean, you have to be careful.
I know a lot of people
probably do pay attention
to the metrics and the feedback
and then draw accordingly.
I try not to do that, although
I'm sure it's influencing me
what people say and think and
feel about what I'm drawing.
So I'm not going to be
naive and say it doesn't
but I try not to draw for the metrics.
I try not to draw for the trends,
although I try to draw what
people are talking about.
>> Right. Right.
So let's just shift gears about
kind of where we are today.
So you've obviously embraced technology
in a major, major way.
You can describe, I mean
you do live drawings
every weekday that people can tune in.
And I mean obviously this
has been a very busy week,
the least.
So it's a much more kind of
visceral and direct experience
with what you're doing every day.
And so how's it evolved?
What's kind of your
thoughts having done that?
>> You know, I think one thing that
about the live drawings that
I deal with every day now,
I think it's a human connection
that people are enjoying.
That's I think one thing
that that they like
about the live drawing
is that it's a connection
with another human being
about an issue or about feeling.
(indistinct)
I think it was about women
and the burden that COVID
was placing on women.
So that was one of my daily life drawings.
>> I love this, again, super powerful,
kind of light and whimsical and your style
but a very, very serious
message without any words.
>> Yeah, Jeff you know the
old adage if you whisper,
people will lean in and listen.
So my drawings in some
ways are whispering.
And I think people appreciate,
some people anyway,
appreciate a quieter take on things.
I'm not trying to hit people
over the head with my opinion.
I'm just showing them
something I'm observing.
That was done early on in
the Trump administration
when he was attacking the press.
I used the statue of Liberty a lot,
but anyway the live drawing thing,
so I'm really kind of excited about it
even though it's very difficult.
When the pandemic hit and
we all had to stay home
I was in my studio a lot
more than I usually am
'cause I love to travel
and I'm invited to travel.
And when I travel, I use
my drawings to communicate
with my audience by live drawing.
Couldn't do that.
So I'd done this before.
I'd drawn on paper with
my phone over my hand.
And I have noticed, years
ago I noticed that that was
of interest to people.
They liked seeing people draw,
they like the hand, watch
the hand create something.
And so I started doing that in March
and I was not creating a
particular cartoon idea
it was more like I was just
drawing what I was hearing
on the news about the
pandemic, about COVID.
And I would draw the healthcare workers.
I would draw the people that
are delivering groceries.
I would draw people in hospitals,
families losing loved ones.
Whatever was on our minds, I would draw it
and talk to the people, talk
to my audience as I drew it.
And people told me it was
first of all, calming.
They found it calming to watch me draw.
And I think they liked the connection
with another human being.
And some of these people
got to know each other
on the stream.
And then so there's a whole community.
This is Instagram I'm talking about.
And so now I have this
regular group of people
that show up every time I do it,
I do it five o'clock on Instagram.
And it had it morphed from
COVID to Black Lives Matter
and all the sad parts of that,
you know, that George Floyd
and Ahmaud Arbery and the
people that were killed
and difficult subjects for me
'cause I don't usually draw about race.
So I should but I haven't
but that taught me some things.
And now the election
and now whatever the
heck's going on right now.
Sometimes I don't have an idea
like yesterday I had no particular idea.
I just wanted to draw Trump in handcuffs.
So that's what I did.
And I drew Trump in handcuffs.
So it doesn't always
rise to a specific idea
but I think people don't mind
they just like to see you draw
and talk about what's going on.
And people are so generous and very kind.
So do, sorry, let me just
say I do that at five
every weekday on Instagram.
And then there's this new startup.
You mentioned it before, Happs TV.
They approached me in March.
A group of young men have created
and some of them are not young,
some of them came from regular.
What did they call it?
This is a term for the established media.
I can't remember what it is.
>> Probably been a very
complimentary these days.
>> No, it's not.
It's not a bad word but it's something.
Anyway some of them have
been in regular media
and they started this
thing called Happs TV,
which is a platform you can
download it on your phone
and it's for live streaming
and they wanted me to want to be
one of their verified journalists.
And they have verified
journals all over the world
that stream about things that are going on
wherever they are.
And this is just as the
pandemic was beginning.
So I said, yes, I'd love to
because they got it.
I think they got what
you've been talking about.
What I've been trying to talk about is,
we don't necessarily need to have the CBSs
and the New Yorkers.
I mean, it's good to have
those in your bio which I do
and I'm not putting that down,
I'm just saying it's hard
to move forward sometimes
with these large, large monolithic media
with an innovative idea.
>> Right, well, I was
curious what happens,
is it like Patrion?
I couldn't decide whether it
was like Patrion or like Twitch
or like Periscope.
It seemed like a combination of the three.
>> I don't actually, I
don't know what Twitch is,
believe it or not.
That's funny that I--
>> So Twitch is the gamer
live streaming platform
and there's a whole
genre of people watching
other people playing
games in this community.
And it's all the same stuff
that you're talking about.
It's just that the focus of the attention
at the moment is a game
but it allows you to give money
and do all those types of things right.
Then you have Periscope,
which is about ready to die
that the Twitter live streaming platform.
And then you've got, as you said, Patrion
which you said you also
have a patrion account
which is the one I think of first
when I think of just again,
kind of direct financial support
to creators, whether it's on a per unit
or, you know, Jack Conti has done
some really interesting stuff there,
so, well, good for you and--
>> Let me just say Happs
is a combination of Patrion
and probably Twitch that they have.
And when the announcement
of Periscope came down
that it was going to stop,
a rush of content providers
went over to two Happs apparently.
It was just like this huge.
I heard about it from
the guys who run Happs
'cause they they're in
touch with creators.
And so you can be my sponsor,
you can give me $5, $10 a month or more
but you can also give me
money with little awards.
I think that's what Twitch is.
Like, you know, they
give me money per episode
like a clapping award
or give me a beer or give
me a coffee or whatever.
>> Just for other young creators out there
not as lies of the the
long-term professional
published worker
but as as kind of a content creator
kind of navigating all these
channels and distributions
and direct contacts, is it overwhelming?
Is it exciting?
What would you tell people when
they're trying to figure out
they've got a creative urge
and not really sure how
to get that distribution?
>> Yeah I've actually
talked to the daughter
of a college friend of mine
'cause she's wanted to be a a chef
and I turned her on to Happs
'cause she's got excitement,
she wants to create content
and wanted to do a book.
And I'm like, well, books
are a whole nother thing
and they're really hard
to get published now.
I turned her towards
Happs just thinking that
because she apparently
does do online speaking.
So it's exciting but it is overwhelming.
But if you like being coming a cartoonist,
if you really want to do it,
you'll find a way to do it.
And you know, reach out to other people.
I reached out to a guy who his
day job is in the government
but he has a travel Patrion
page for New Orleans.
I never been to new Orleans.
I don't know the man
but he's very successful on Patrion.
I know now.
And I just reached out to him like,
can you tell me how to navigate Patrion?
So yeah, reach out to people.
Hopefully they'll be helpful.
I get people coming to me all the time
asking for assistance
and advice on things.
>> Well, I was going to say as we kind
of come towards the end here,
you shared some secrets
with those Yukon grads
and I wrote them down
'cause I always liked
to grab secrets from
commencement speeches.
Always have an eraser.
I like it.
You might make a mistake.
>> Did I say that?
>> You will make mistakes.
And then your next line was,
mistakes are sometimes the
best part of the output
which I thought was so powerful.
And then know a little
about a lot of things,
which clearly is something that you do
and you touched on such a
broad kind of slate of topics
but I just give you
the kind of final word,
thankfully, hopefully
things will be a little bit
less chaotic here in 14 days.
You won't quite have
the fodder of the orange
that you've had
for years for never-ending
things to write about.
That's for sure.
I wonder if you can just
kind of share your thoughts
as you look forward,
you know, you're managing all
these social media platforms.
You're riding on tons of
really important topics
which the good news is
at least a lot of them
seem to finally be having some traction.
At least it feels like
we've turned some corners
on a few of these topics
including the Black Lives Matter.
As you look into 2021,
just counting the events of this week,
what are you excited about?
What are you looking forward to?
>> Well, one thing I
said also in that speech
that you mentioned,
which carries over into the new year
and sort of trying to get us past
where we've been for the past four years
is I told the graduates to listen.
That was my thread that
went through the talk
because that's what I have to do,
I have to really listen to people.
I watch too. I'm always watching people
but I'm listening to what's
going on, I'm listening.
And I think if we listen to each other,
we'll really listen.
It's so easy to just say it
and that's what I try
to do with my cartoons.
Yes, I've been harsh on the
president over the years
but I try not to be unnecessarily mean
because it'll divide us even further.
You know, this cartoon was
done recently about hope
'cause I'm an optimistic person.
And I think if we embrace hope,
it's going to be more positive.
Yeah. I mean, if you get
caught up in the craziness
of social media and not listen
but you can also listen very
carefully on social media.
You can listen, I have
a great group of people
that I connect with on
every morning on Twitter,
I say good morning.
And it helps me get going
but also helps, I'm told
help other people get going
with their day in a positive manner.
There's been some mornings
in the past four years
where I didn't have an exclamation
point on my good morning
but I would say this morning (mumbles)
>> Well, actually I have your quote
from that commencement speak right here.
And you said, learn through
other people's experience,
which I thought was so powerful,
laugh a lot, laugh at yourself,
laugh with others not at others
and listen deeply to yourself and others.
You'll be surprised at what you'll hear
and what you can do with what you hear.
Very powerful messages for the graduates.
So Liza I'm so thankful you were able
to take a few minutes out
of your day to sit down.
I wanted to talk to
you at that Wit's event
but Lisa was doing all the interviews
and that was the right thing to do.
I was very jealous 'cause I
wanted to sit down with you.
So thanks for taking time
and hopefully quite the
madness of fodder for your--
>> No, I hope not.
It'll be interesting to
see how another cartoon
is to handle the new administration.
It's going to be a lot different.
>> Saturday Night Live can do, you can do.
>> I wanted to draw it for you guys
but I don't really know
what to draw, let me think.
Shall I draw for you?
>> I would love for you to draw.
Did something pop into your head?
>> No.
>> No?
>> No.
>> So while you're drawing,
talk a little bit about
kind of how your techniques
have changed over the years.
>> That's a good idea.
I'm going to try to think as I show you.
So ever since I started,
I don't know what you can see here.
These are some of my pens and brushes.
Ever since I began as a cartoonist...
Some light on this situation,
light's not working.
I have used something
called a Crow Quill pen,
which is a dip pen,
you know, the old fashioned
and a bottle of ink.
And this is what I started
using when I was starting out.
My first New Yorker cartoon
was drawn like this.
Make sure you can see.
>> What year was your first
New Yorker cartoon published?
>> 1982.
>> 82.
>> They bought one in 1979
and then didn't run and
they bought another one
and then they didn't run it until 1982.
It was excruciating.
>> And if they buy it,
you no longer have rights to it anymore
even if they don't run it.
>> I have some rights.
We share the rights.
>> Okay.
>> And I started drawing for
my mother as you pointed out
but she gave me copy of
James Thurbers cartoons,
a book of his cartoons.
If any of your viewers viewers
know that, know Thurber
you'll see the connection.
The very loose sort of
simple shapes, very minimal.
And so that's the tool
that I use most of the time
when I'm drawing on paper,
when I'm not using a digital stylist.
But this is a new pen
that I've discovered.
It's a pen brush, it's
called a Pentel pen brush.
And it gives you a sort of the same feel.
It's a little more brushy
and let's see, shall I finish with this?
Maybe I will.
I like drawing people in
motion for some reason
happy and you know, moving.
>> Well, one of the
interesting things you said
in one of the Ted talks is
probably not doing it here
but the amount of kind of thought
that goes into the process
beyond the obvious.
And you talked about having a backstory
and really kind of
thinking through the scene
and being really like a cinematographer
and you know what are
they wearing, furniture
and what is the background
and really interesting
as to the thoughtfulness
and the intentfullness
of what goes on the page
and what does not go on the page.
>> Well, that's true
for New Yorker cartoon
is you have to sort of pay attention to,
it's like I've said
that being a cartoonist
is like you're like creating
a little stage, a set of...
Oopsie, it's bleeding.
I didn't wait long enough,
I think it's still wet
but this is the watercolor I use.
So you're the set designer.
You're the choreographer,
you're the script writer,
You're the casting director
because you have to
create this little scene
of everything that's going on
and the words, if there are words in it.
And then it's a story, a
single panel cartoon is a story
but it's got a beginning
and a middle and an end.
So the middle is the cartoon itself.
So the people that you have in the cartoon
you have to make sense
that they would be saying
what they're saying.
And like setting has to make sense.
This is a great tool that
the Spanish cartoonists
turned me on to.
It's a pencil but it's
really thick and really fun.
What else can I show you?
>> And then when you're
thinking it through,
is it all in your head at the same time
and you're just putting it down
or does the picture come first
and then the words to the words--
>> I also have a book I can show you.
Let me get quickly it's just over here.
>> I think the process is so fascinating.
>> Each week I try to,
when I come up with ideas
and you sit with a blank piece of paper
or in this case a blank
sketchbook and a doodle.
And sometimes I'll look down.
I hope I don't show you anything
that I don't want you to see.
But so this is, can you see that?
>> Yeah, so these are kind of--
>> Doodles.
Doodles with words, construction site.
That popped in my head, I wrote it down.
You never know it might
come in the cartoon
and never turn it into anything
but it's a situation that might be helpful
in some kind of situation.
Here I just drew it,
you know, coffee machine
and a blender over here
and the blender is saying,
I love you no matter the distance.
And that was a cartoon that I drew up
and sent to the New Yorker
but they didn't buy it.
And that was a pandemic cartoon.
You know, just doodles.
>> I'm trying to find that one you did
when you say construction,
I only got whistled at 18 times today.
>> Oh yeah, I couldn't
find that to give you
but that was a more serious
cartoon about feminism,
you know desert island drawing.
So it's a lot of just
sitting with words and images
and sometimes something will come,
like here's a woman picking some fruit
from a stand, a piece
of apple saying why me.
That didn't come into anything
that didn't become anything
but this is a woman walking up some steps.
And over here, I see the word cage steps.
And that actually turned into
a cartoon that I drew it.
It's not here but I drew
it into a cartoon of...
I do a lot of caveman
drawings for the New Yorker.
And a woman is saying it's at
the bottom of the stone steps
go up to nowhere.
And its's a man at the top
and I forget what I had her saying to him
but they bought it and
they took off my caption
and they ran it in the back
page of the caption contest.
So you never know.
>> Oh, they run it (mumbles)
the caption contest, okay.
But in your own mind though,
does it all happened together
and forgetting like maybe wordsmithing
but is it the picture
that drives the caption
or the other way around or both?
>> Both.
It depends on sometimes
you'll come up with a caption
just sitting there and
they'll go that's it.
Sometimes you'll have to
rewrite, reword the caption
'cause it's the order of
the words is important.
>> And talk a little bit
about Mother Liberty.
'Cause you use the
statue of Liberty a lot.
It's a very powerful, very
powerful person, metaphor, symbol
I mean so many things going on there.
>> Well, historically--
(indistinct)
>> Huh what?
>> I was going to say
one of your latest ones,
you've got the--
>> Oh yeah, there she's getting the COVID.
Now that one was done
a couple of weeks ago
during the live draw.
And it was because not only
was there hope in there
because they just got the vaccine
but there was hope because of
the election, I think yeah.
I think Biden had just won.
So there was a mixed message there
you know, historically
cartoonists have used Uncle Sam
as the symbol for America.
I'll just take the moment to draw.
>> And here's another recent one.
I think this is the one you're
selling T-shirts and mugs.
(indistinct)
>> Thank you. Yeah, it's in the mail.
Kamela during her debate with Mike Pence
if you watched it, I'm sure you did.
She said a couple of
times Mr.Vice president,
I'm speaking, I'm speaking.
And she got that great look on her face
and I was live drawing the debate.
So I had other drawings of her and Pence
but that one I made put onto
t-shirts and hats and mugs
and people are buying them a lot.
And they're still there.
If anybody wants one, they
can just go to my website.
>> And how long, it kind of goes back
to this kind of
multi-channel multi-country,
how long have you been
selling merchandise?
>> This is new.
I sell prints all the time for people,
prints of drawings that they
like that they see of mine
but this is my statue of Liberty.
She doesn't really look
like that of course.
But so yeah so this is new,
the merchandise is new
and my daughter's
helping me with the store
'cause I don't know how to
do spreadsheets and she does.
So she's really organized and I'm not,
actually you don't see
her physique at all.
And then last week I did a drawing of her
holding the Capitol building
I won't draw it here
because this is my feeling
about the statue of Liberty.
She represents the best
of America, I think
and she represents what
we're supposed to be.
And this is a beacon of
hope to people to come here
and join us in democracy
people from around the country.
And last week I drew her
holding the Capitol building
because it looked like--
>> I have that right here.
>> You have that?
Yeah 'cause it would look like
the Democrats were winning
and I'm in Georgia.
Sorry. I'll come back on.
>> This was the fateful Tuesday
before the fateful Wednesday
'cause then you also then lied--
>> Oh God no.
But I feel like the Democrats
at least since the last four years,
the Democrats are our beacon of hope
and they're more respectful
to our democracy.
And that's why I did that Capitol building
in replacing it with the
light that she holds.
So she's a great symbol--
>> You know the foreshadowing
for the next day.
I mean, Oh my goodness.
>> And I'm stuck today.
I don't know what I'm going to draw.
I really want to draw
about the racist nature
and the white privilege of the--
>> It's got to be something about that.
It's got to be something with
that picture from the steps
of the Lincoln Memorial.
I mean, that's the one
that everyone is using
as the juxtaposition to Buffalo head
and the treatment that they got.
There's a lot of juxtaposition of that
photo floating around.
>> Which photo, on the Capitol steps?
>> Is the one from...
No, it's well, I'm not sure
which one they're using
of what happened Wednesday
but the one they're using
from the Black Lives
events protest
there was a really scary
looking group of military guys
on the steps of, I think it
was the Lincoln Memorial.
It was a very, very good photograph,
very effective photograph,
you know, really tight on
this guy in the foreground
and you know, very ominous.
>> It's a complicated situation to draw
a simple cartoon about.
It's white privilege, it's racism.
And how do you depict that?
That's my problem.
>> You're good.
It's so many layers of
kind of the double entendre
into your work
and I know that's probably a big piece
of really what makes people's work
is to have, you know kind
of these second order,
third order layers of
impact and thoughtfulness.
And what's really happening beyond
just kind of the surface level.
>> It's helpful to sit
back and or step back
and look often my political
cartoons are more poignant
if they are, if I've taken
a day to think about it.
>> Well, Liza, well thank you.
Good luck with your writer's block
or your drawer's block for this afternoon.
I'm sure you'll come up
with something great.
It's really great to catch up.
I look forward to running
into in the hallways
of a convention or something once we're--
>> Yeah, definitely.
Where are you based--
>> Of our groups.
I'm in the Palo Alto. I'm in California.
>> Oh, okay, right.
Well, when I get out to
California again, I'll see you.
>> Yes, Liza, thanks again.
And congratulations on all your success.
And I do enjoy my good
morning every morning
that I get from you.
I try to be quick and get back to you
before it's been like six hours.
>> That's okay. It doesn't matter.
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
>> Thank you very much as well.
>> Okay.
>> All right.
Thanks a lot.
Bye bye.
>> Bye.