Kenya Barris & Malcolm Gladwell on Storytelling, Media Change, Success

Kenya Barris, creator of the hit sitcom "Black-ish," and Malcolm Gladwell, renowned author and journalist, recently discussed their Audible original podcast, "The Unusual Suspects," and the evolving media landscape. Their conversation touched on personal journeys, creative processes, and the future of storytelling.

The Genesis of "The Unusual Suspects"

The podcast "The Unusual Suspects" brings together individuals from Barris's and Gladwell's respective worlds, offering listeners a unique opportunity to eavesdrop on diverse perspectives. Gladwell noted that the show aims to push the envelope beyond traditional chat show guest definitions, providing a platform for voices that might not otherwise be heard. Barris emphasized the search for shared humanity among their guests, exploring what drives successful individuals and the "secret sauce" behind their achievements. Both hosts expressed that they consistently learn something new from each conversation.

Kenya Barris: From Englewood to Empire

Barris shared his compelling backstory, beginning with his birth in Pomona, California, and subsequent move to Englewood. Raised by a single mother after his father's abusive behavior, Barris's mother proved to be a shrewd investor in low-income residential apartment buildings, often collecting rent herself with a .38 caliber pistol. She instilled in her children the importance of owning property, viewing it as a personal bank.

Barris was part of the first generation to directly benefit from the Civil Rights Movement, with his mother emphasizing the necessity of education. He initially pursued medicine, attending a historically Black college in Atlanta, but organic chemistry proved to be a turning point. A play he wrote, "Ruby D Nazi Davis," which was supported by Lawrence Fishburne, revealed his true calling.

His connection to the entertainment industry was significantly influenced by Spike Lee, who attended Morehouse College. Barris admired Lee's ability to tell authentically Black stories with the aesthetic quality of filmmakers like Scorsese, reaching a wide audience without shying away from his cultural identity. Attending an HBCU like Clark Atlanta University expanded Barris's sense of self-worth and possibility, showing him a thriving Black professional class in Atlanta that contrasted with the segregated environment of Los Angeles.

Barris attributes his ability to "put out fires" to growing up in a "burning house," marked by traumatic experiences such as his mother shooting his father, his brothers' involvement in gangs and drug dealing, and the death of his younger brother from leukemia. These experiences, he explained, taught him to filter negativity into something funny, a common trait among comedians. He discovered his "superpower" in seventh grade, using humor as a defense mechanism and a way to connect with people. This led him to understand the power of storytelling through context, exploring multiple perspectives rather than just one.

His career trajectory was rapid, co-creating "America's Next Top Model" at a young age. He credits his success to taking risks and a "hustler mentality."

The Malcolm Gladwell Connection and the "Why Behind the Why"

Barris first met Gladwell at a restaurant, approaching him as a fan of "The Tipping Point," a book he considered a "hood classic" for its insights into how things become phenomena. Their friendship deepened during the pandemic, particularly after Gladwell praised Barris's Netflix show "Black AF." Barris noted that while the show was divisive, particularly among some Black audiences who found it too satirical or not representative of their experiences, Gladwell's positive feedback resonated deeply.

Barris realized that Gladwell's books, which delve into the "why behind the why," mirrored his own storytelling approach in "Black-ish." He cited an episode exploring the origins of unique Black names like "Tatiana" or "Devonte," revealing their roots in a Civil Rights-era desire to create a distinct identity outside of both African and mainstream American cultures. This approach, Barris believes, is the "secret sauce" of his storytelling.

The Enigma of Success and the Power of Voice

Gladwell observed that Barris, despite his immense success, often deflects questions about how he achieved it. Barris admitted to a certain shyness and a reluctance to discuss his accomplishments, partly out of a fear of "jinxing" things and partly because he finds it hard to believe his own life. He also expressed a belief in the power of words, both positive and negative, and a desire to avoid attracting negative energy or jealousy.

He emphasized the importance of keeping projects private until they are fully realized, contrasting this with the modern culture of announcing things prematurely. Barris believes in the sacredness of a creative idea, which needs protection from external influences.

Gladwell drew a parallel to a successful, unassuming finance guy he knows who quietly builds an empire, suggesting Barris operates similarly. Barris agreed, highlighting his shy nature and the importance of genuine relationships and producing good work. He believes that having a strong "voice" – an authentic and integral way of approaching life and work – is the most important asset any creative can possess.

The Shifting Media Landscape

The conversation then shifted to the rapidly changing media landscape. Barris recounted a pivotal moment when he left Disney for a lucrative Netflix deal. Later, when he left Netflix, he faced a challenging period where he couldn't sell TV shows for four years due to internal conflicts at the company he joined. This experience, coupled with the pandemic, a writers' strike, his father's death from COVID, and a divorce, forced him to rely on his established voice and relationships to navigate the difficulties.

Both Barris and Gladwell discussed the "dizzying" pace of change in media, with the decline of traditional pilot seasons and residuals. However, they also see opportunities. Barris noted the rise of the creator economy, where YouTubers and streamers are achieving massive success, sometimes overshadowing traditional Hollywood stars. He expressed concern that this immediate gratification might "opiate" young talent, preventing them from putting in the long-term work required to become truly great actors or comedians.

Barris believes that brands will play an increasingly important role, acting as modern-day "scions" or benefactors who can foster talent and provide the resources for artists to develop their craft without the immediate pressure of commercial success. He cited the example of Taylor Sheridan, who has built an empire by controlling his own material and leveraging his ranch for production.

Gladwell, a print and audio veteran, emphasized adaptability. He approaches projects by first determining the story and then deciding the best medium to tell it, whether it's audio, video, or a combination. He also highlighted the role of podcasts as a "minor league" for book ideas, allowing him to test concepts and stories with a loyal audience before developing them into larger projects.

Advice for Young Creatives

Both Barris and Gladwell offered advice to aspiring creatives:

• Have something to say: Barris stressed the importance of having a clear message or point of view behind any creative endeavor, rather than just a "cool idea."
• Know something: Gladwell advised young journalists to focus on acquiring deep knowledge in a specific subject area rather than just learning the craft of journalism.
• Authenticity and integrity: Both agreed that operating with integrity and authenticity, finding and embracing one's unique voice, is crucial for long-term success in a competitive and often superficial industry.

Barris concluded by discussing his upcoming reimagining of "The Truman Show" for Paramount, which explores an alternate reality where slavery never happened in the US. This project, he explained, allows him to delve into themes of reality, perception, and societal expectations, reflecting his personal experiences and observations. He also expressed a desire to explore complex topics like monogamy and relationships, questioning societal norms and expectations.

The conversation underscored the dynamic nature of the media landscape, the enduring power of authentic storytelling, and the importance of personal resilience and vision in navigating a constantly evolving industry.