How Boycat’s Founder Turned a Simple Barcode Scanner into a Global Boycott Movement—and Survived Israeli Pressure

Muslim Founder

Summary Date: 2025-11-19 01:21:10

# How Boycat’s Founder Turned a Simple Barcode Scanner into a Global Boycott Movement—and Survived Israeli Pressure ### Introduction The interview follows Adel (also referred to as Abdullah), a former Silicon Valley engineer who left a lucrative tech career to launch **Boycat**, a mobile app that helps users identify and avoid products linked to the Israeli government and its supporters. Since its launch in early 2024, the app has diverted over $200 million from companies funding the Israeli war effort, gone viral, and attracted both worldwide praise and aggressive retaliation. ### From Tech‑Bro to Purpose‑Driven Founder - **Early ambition**: Raised in the U.S., studied at UC Davis, and worked at major tech firms (Google, Facebook, Amazon). - **Personal mission**: Inspired by Islamic teachings about caring for orphans and the concept of accountability on the Day of Judgment. He felt the tech world served only the elite and wanted to help the most vulnerable. - **Turning point**: The October 7, 2023 attacks in Gaza reignited his sense of responsibility. He realized his comfortable lifestyle was meaningless while people were being slaughtered. ### The Birth of Boycat - **Idea in a dream**: A night‑time dream about arguing over a Starbucks cup sparked the insight that everyday consumer choices can be redirected. - **Core functionality**: Users scan a product’s barcode, the app shows the brand’s ownership, and suggests ethical alternatives. Additional features include: - *Zoies*: locate ethical cafés and restaurants nearby. - A growing database of vetted, “clean” businesses. - **Mission beyond convenience**: Collect user data to aggregate purchasing power, influence governments and corporations, and build a Muslim‑centered alternative economy. ### Rapid Viral Growth - **Launch metrics**: First day $1,000 in revenue, first month 20,000 downloads, next month 100,000+ downloads and 60‑80 million video views across platforms. - **Media attention**: BBC, Al Jazeera, and numerous news outlets featured Boycat within weeks. - **Community response**: Hundreds of thousands of users joined, sharing the app on social media, leading to exponential network effects. ### Israeli Government’s Attempted Acquisition - **$150 million fund**: The Israeli state created a secret fund to purchase Boycat and protect its image. - **Multiple offers**: Over several weeks, the founder received at least four formal offer letters from companies all sharing the same Tel Aviv address. - **Moral test**: The large checks tested his integrity; he declined, stating the money lacked *baraka* (blessing) and would betray his supporters. ### Harassment and Threats - **Online attacks**: Coordinated campaigns on LinkedIn, app‑store reviews, and social media aimed to report the app as harmful. - **Death threats**: Emails, DMs, and letters warned of personal harm if he continued his work. - **Platform sabotage**: Attempts were made to delist Boycat from app stores via Google’s Trust & Safety teams. Connections with allies in those teams ultimately prevented removal. - **Job loss**: After the app went viral, his employer gave a perfunctory performance review and terminated him, freeing him to focus full‑time on Boycat. ### Why Boycotting Matters - **Collective purchasing power**: If enough consumers stop buying from a company, its revenue collapses, forcing it to change its funding sources. - **Ethical alignment**: Supporting brands that do not fund the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) or lobby for oppressive policies. - **Economic independence**: Long‑term vision to build a Muslim/Islamic‑ethical economy that serves everyone, not just a niche market. ### Future Roadmap (5‑10 Years) 1. **Short‑term (1‑2 years)**: Expand user base, improve retention, gamify ethical shopping, and continue diverting funds from hostile corporations. 2. **Medium‑term (3‑5 years)**: Develop a broader “Muslim alternative economy” with partner businesses, financial services, and educational resources. 3. **Long‑term (10 years)**: Establish infrastructure that allows future generations to operate independently of corporations that support oppression, giving the community a seat at global decision‑making tables. ### Lessons for Aspiring Change‑Makers - **Learn by doing**: He taught himself to code in a month, built the MVP in December, and launched in January. - **Build in public**: Social media amplified the product; transparency attracted collaborators and supporters. - **Leverage AI & open resources**: Utilized AI tools, YouTube tutorials, and community feedback to iterate quickly. - **Stay rooted in faith**: Regularly revisits prophetic stories (Hijra, Prophet Yusuf, Prophet Musa) for strategic patience and humility. - **Balance worldly and spiritual goals**: Pursues both material sustainability for his family and eternal accountability. ### Community Support & Funding - **Memberships & donations**: Encourages users with higher capacity to become members or investors; stresses that returns are long‑term, not VC‑style quick exits. - **Personal sacrifice**: Founder reduced his personal savings from six figures to four to fund operations, emphasizing the need for collective financial backing. ### Managing Fear and Arrogance - **Fear of disappearance**: Constant threats keep him vigilant. - **Arrogance risk**: Regular self‑reflection and accountability from peers help maintain pure intentions. - **Mental model**: Trust in Allah, view all humanity as extended family, and practice *tazkiyah* (self‑purification) to stay grounded. ### Final Call to Action - **For users**: Scan, share, and support ethical brands; spread the app among friends. - **For investors**: Provide patient capital to build lasting infrastructure. - **For the broader Muslim community**: Build products that serve humanity, not just niche markets, and embody prophetic humility and stewardship. Boycat shows that a simple consumer‑choice tool, when rooted in strong ethical and spiritual convictions, can mobilize millions, challenge powerful state actors, and lay the groundwork for an economy guided by moral values rather than profit alone.

Full Transcript

I heard the Israeli government tried to
buy your app. What's the story behind
that?
>> The crazy story is they launched a $150
million fund. First offer letter came,
second offer letter came. When you see
that many zeros on a check, dude, they
test you, man. But there's no bonus.
>> But that's like one part of it. The
second part of it gets more serious
where now you're getting emails,
letters, DMs that are more death threats
and like, "Hey, if I ever see you, this
is going to happen." It hit me at that
point. Like their families were getting
slaughtered. They didn't have contact
with their friends, family, cousins.
There are kids that never got to see
their first birthday. There are kids
that never got to see their fifth
birthday. How do you defeat people that
know that death isn't the end? That's
true. You can't. One night I kind of had
a dream. In that dream, I was arguing
with someone about why they bought
Starbucks. Came down to he didn't know
there's no alternative. One cup doesn't
matter. And I woke up and like the next
3 years of my life just flashed before
my eyes.
>> Can you tell us about what the app does?
Like what what does it do? What's the
impact that it's had so far?
>> On a very surface level, the Boycap, you
simply scan barcodes, search for brands,
you can find alternatives to them. when
you launch, you're going super viral.
You know, news outlets were like hitting
you up. You also got a phone call at
work. What's the story behind that?
Before we start this episode, I want to
flag that only 5% of you are subscribed
to the channel. So, please do consider
subscribing as it does help out the
channel and does help bring out better
guests in the future.
Abdullah is the founder of Boycat, an
app that has diverted over $200 million
from companies supporting Israeli
interest. Adel studied at UC Davis in
California before starting his career in
Silicon Valley where he worked at a
number of notable tech companies. In
2023, after the ongoing events in
Palestine, he launched the boycott app
that would put him on government watch
list worldwide. In this conversation, I
want to discuss how he transitioned from
working in tech to building a
missiondriven company that serves the um
why boycotting is so important for
Muslims, and how the Israeli government
tried to buy his app. Adel, thanks for
coming on. Good to see you again. Take
me take me back to before October the
7th, right? you know, you were working
in Silicon Valley, you know, living the
tech bro dream. Um, you know, what were
the thoughts going in your head? Like
what were your life ambitions back then?
>> Oh man, that's a that's a journey. So I
think understanding the why behind like
founders and stuff is so important
because it's like what it's what drives
your career technically and not just in
like this life like the next two, you
know. And so the question I asked myself
at the time was a very I guess a deep
one for a 14 15 year old kid but it was
necessary because it every week I can
ask myself that question and discover
and the question is simply on the day of
judgment when the prophet's scanning his
entire um and he stops at you
specifically how does he recognize you
>> and as he continues scanning and for me
I was like all right let's you know
somehow it was it was a blessing because
I I heard a couple hadith talking about
have you took care of an orphan you and
the prophet like this in Jenna Mhm.
>> And I was like, there's no higher status
of me being homeboys with the prophet,
you know, like no no disrespect at all,
but it's like that's what you want to
be, right? And so I was like, all right,
my entire life mission is always going
to be centered around orphans. I just
love that.
>> I was naturally inclined to it.
Technically, I have some my family. I
just like
>> I realized at that moment I could argue
with both my parents and that that was
the biggest blessing. The fact that I
can argue with them
>> is crazy cuz you you take that for
granted like in the moment you're just
like, "Thanks for giving me another
rule. thanks for not letting me go out.
Thanks for not doing this. But to even
argue with someone is a blessing because
it means you have a relationship with
them. And orphans aren't that fortunate
for that, you know, and they're going
through so much and they get kind of
tossed to the like the side of society.
And for me, it was just like I need to
solve that issue.
>> Yeah. It sounds like you were very
involved with like community work like
you had that strong purpose of strong
drive from like a young kind of age.
>> Yeah. I mean, if you think about I was
surrounded by big tech and it only
catered to like the top 0.00001% 000 1%
of the world where let's get you more
likes on Instagram. Let's get you more
followers. Whatever it's like, but who's
taking care of those kids on the street?
It's like who's taking who's putting
food on people's plates.
>> It was never the big tech companies.
They're not solving that. They're just,
you know, consumers and consumers and
consumerism. And so I really wanted to
solve that problem. Like that's kind of
where my entire thing was. No matter
what I do, I'm going to move in that
direction. And I caught the builder bug
when I was young, right? 13 14. I was
like first company, second company,
third company business. I would call
companies, just like random hustles that
a kid could do. I was, dude, I was
raking in cash. 13-year-old, I was
making $3,000 a month. I was like, dude,
I'm a millionaire. I could buy whatever
I wanted, you know, crazy stuff. But
>> so when um things were happening in like
Palestine, you know, towards the end of
2023, like what were the thoughts I was
like going through your head? Um you
know, what were those kind of feelings
and emotions? Yeah, I think it reignited
my intention a lot because I think I
became complacent because you get
comfortable. You get comfortable with
tech bro salary, man. You work for like
five, six years, you have a Porsche, you
have whatever you want. You get you get
you can travel the world where you you
can enjoy 90% of the world has to offer
with techro salary, techro benefits, you
can live very comfortable life so on
from there. But you're not a change
maker and you can't and when you see
things like Philsteeen happen, you
realize how powerless you are and how
comfortable you are. That's why every
techo should go without a shower and
then go without a bed for a day at least
a month. It reignites it. And so my
thoughts were just very simple. I was
like, look, there is a government
destroying people. There is a government
not listening to people. There's
corporations backing this government.
People are trying to unite. There was
protests happening. There's petitions
happening, emails happening,
>> lawmakers being called, whatever. But
nothing happened. And like it didn't
matter how much you were making at
Google, how much you were making at
Facebook, Amazon, whatever.
>> It's like why weren't they listening to
you? It's because like we weren't
speaking the same language. That was the
reality, right?
>> We didn't speak the same language as
them. They were speaking the language of
money and we're speaking the language of
words, ethics, morals, whatever it is.
>> And it's cool because it wasn't an Arab
or it wasn't a Muslim issue. It was a
humanity thing. Like we saw non-Muslims
doing this. We saw Christians. We saw
Jews. We saw whatever it was speaking up
against the slaughter in Gaza. But even
with that, the collective unity, it
didn't matter. That's crazy, right? It's
because they weren't speaking the same
language. And I saw it happen. I was
like, "All right, you know, two weeks
will go by, Israel will stop." Like
>> historically, that's what they did.
Like, you know,
>> last Eid, last summer, everything. It's
two weeks and then kind of slowed down.
But day after day after day, you just
saw that happen. And
>> and what really hit me was when I So,
you know, I tried to go to the M as much
as I can. And when I used to go, I start
seeing more and more lines fill up. And
it just for me it was weird because I
live in a you know an very diverse area
and there's a lot of Palestinians in the
area
>> you start seeing more and more like the
ones that wouldn't show up in the past
the ones that would only show up once a
week maybe once a month like if someone
would only show up during Ramadan and
stuff but like and no hate to that but
now they're coming back. So it's like
seeing them make longer dua making them
stay at the mid more and so on from
there it hit me at that point like their
families were getting slaughtered. they
didn't have contact with their friends,
family, cousins, whatever.
>> But that moment I was just like, "Dude,
we have to do something." And um yeah,
that's
>> So what's the story from there? Like
obviously you're seeing everything
that's going on. Um you know, how did
you know that this was the thing that
you wanted to tackle? Because you know,
some people got politically involved,
you know, some people got closer with
the religion, a lot of people start
protesting, you know. How did you know
that this was the specific thing that
you wanted to go after? And then how did
the the app come about?
>> It was built in me, I think, for the
longest time. I didn't know I I one I
hate politics, two I hate social
justice. So the craziest thing happened.
I'm in this space.
So it was wild. So I think what happened
was really like you know I was pretty
consistent and a really good lesson I
learned at an early age was like is
going to be your key to everything. Like
it'll give you the answers. It'll help
you be disciplined. It'll it'll solve
all these issues.
>> And so one night I kind of had a dream
and I in that dream I was arguing with
someone about why they bought Starbucks.
And it's such a stupid dream. Like I'm
trying to sleep, bro. I have a dream
about some random dude I'd never met in
my life drinking Starbucks. I'm like,
don't buy that. And you know, it just
came down to he didn't know there's an
alternative. You know, one cup doesn't
matter and there. And I woke up and like
the next three years of my life just
flashed before my eyes.
>> I think it all started with the
intention like I want to do something.
And alhamdulillah like that that
inspiration came
>> and
>> you know started aligning different
philosophies and figuring out what
actually works. And I'm a very practical
person. I hate this idea of like if we
do this or we we talk about this there's
going to be change. It's like no go do
the change. Be the change. I think even
Islam it's like you know if you see an
injustice like you know do something
about it basically. If you can't do
something speak about and so from there
but I'm like we already we're already
trying to speak and nothing's happening.
Let's do
>> and um I learned basically right off the
bat that individuals have to be united
to create change. Like that's how it all
started. And I was like you know what
actually matters in life? What can you
do on a daily basis? What can you do in
Dubai? What can I do in California? What
can what can someone do in Japan? What
can someone do in the random rural parts
of France? Right? Like what can you do
to play a part that's easy that's not
intrusive because if you try to do
something so grand and like I'm going to
go get on a boat and you know sail over
there and be part of the the resistance
or whatever. It's like
>> you're not going to do that.
>> Yeah.
>> And not everyone can do that and no one
wants to do that. But what can I do on
an individual level to clean my plate a
little bit more and do my part? And
that's kind of how everything just
started falling into place and I kind of
understood exactly what I needed to do.
So what's the significance of boycotting
because you know I do feel like there's
still a large you know group of Muslims
who feel like you know it doesn't have
impact or it doesn't have change. Can
you like talk to us a little bit about
you know why you chose this specific
cause um and then you know what's the
significance of you know tackling this
from like a financial point of view?
Yeah. So, there's a bunch of different
reasons for it, but the first thing,
first message to everyone who denies it
is your risk is written. If it's meant
for you to go to bed with a full
stomach, Allah will give you a full
stomach no matter what. But it's your
choice based on what you put into it.
It's never you're never going to get
anything less. If it's meant for you to
make a million dollars in a year, you're
going to make a million dollars in a
year. It doesn't matter if you do it
selling crack, if you do it selling
Coca-Cola or you do it selling an
ethical good brand. Like you're gonna
make a million dollars in any way.
>> And it's just a matter of how much Ba is
going to be in sync, right?
>> And so there's no excuse not to and it's
arrogant and it's you being selfish in
this concept of convenience
>> that you argue that boycott doesn't
matter as well from there. But outside
of that, going into the actual answer is
it has an impact. Your purchasing power
collectively can change how the entire
economy is run. If everyone in the world
decided to stop buying a certain
product, that company would be finished.
>> And if that company ends up supporting
something that you care about, if they
end up supporting Philistine and we all
buy that company and buy a product from
that company, that entire company will
expand globally. And you can help a
company that supports the values that
you care about. And you can guarantee
like they won't be donating to IDF. They
won't be doing certain things with
leadership. They won't lobby and so on.
there. It's all about conven literally
boycotting is all about convenience.
>> Yeah.
>> How much are you willing to sacrifice
your convenience to make sure that you
put your money in the right place
>> at an individual level?
>> And uh how does how does the boycott app
like facilitate this? Like can you tell
us about like what the app does? Like
what what does it do? What's the impact
that it's had so far?
>> Yeah. So the impact has been crazy. Like
I originally made it I was like my
friends and homies just need to learn a
quick fun way so that there's a shopping
companion that helps you figure out what
to buy and what not to buy. That's
that's all it was. And then on the back
end, the secret mission behind it was
let's collect and unify power. Let's use
let's use our data numbers and so on.
From there we'll influence governments
and corporations. But on a very surface
level, the boycap you simply scan
barcodes, search for brands, you can
find alternatives to them.
>> You can we even have a feature called
zooies where you can find cafes in your
area, restaurants in your area. Like our
goal is to expand the database of really
good businesses and just give them all
to the people.
>> Like it's really interesting. So I think
a lot of times people think when you
build a business, you have to build it
alone. You have to just focus on
yourself. Don't worry like cannibalize
everyone else. And this is a very
western Silicon Valley approach where
it's like I'm gonna slit your throat
just so I can win. If you are making
some money and I'm making even if I'm
making a hundred million dollars. If I
if I know you're making a million, I
want your $1 million. Like that's the
Silicon Valley mentality. I'm going to
undercut you. I'm going to do whatever.
But Islam is so beautiful that it
teaches us that there's no scarcity
mindset.
>> Like Allah can give whatever he wants.
like we he is what we think of him,
right? If we think that he can only give
the entire um $10 million today, that's
all he'll ever give. But if we think he
can give us anything we want, he'll give
us anything we want.
>> That's reality. And in this like I try
to draw my inspiration from like three
prophets in general. Um obviously draw
is every single one
>> but for me specifically it's like I had
some sort of like natural like tie to
these specific ones but prophet MS,
prophet Ysef and then our prophet
wasallam has kind of been my inspiration
for a lot. Is there any like specific
stories from
>> Yeah. So specifically for this this
point specifically um the power of
building together and collectively
unifying people in the story of prophet
MSA it's really interesting. So when he
had to go you know he was told to go
talk to he wasn't like I got this let me
go do it myself. He was like can I bring
my brother along? Can I bring Harun
along? There's a lesson behind this
right? He's literally like not trying to
fight the biggest you know tyrant in the
like history. He's like I need my boy
with me. I need my brother with me. And
is like let's go together. let's support
each other and from there I'll do my
part but I just need you to be with me
like that's what he was talking about
and it's a huge lesson because
>> as a collective we have to stop stop the
scarcity mindset we have to be like I'm
going to platform you you're going to
platform me we're going to be together
we're going to grow together like that's
it
>> there's no such thing as cannibalization
even though we think there is in the
surface level because Allah can provide
endlessly from means we'll never dream
of
>> and so we need to have that mindset when
we build in that direction so that with
boycott like you know very similar it's
like let's collectively bring all these
really good brands together in one
place. Let's platform them to everyone.
Let's have consumers when they shop now,
they don't have to think about
boycotting. They don't have to think
about avoiding things. It's all clean
money. It's all clean brands, products,
and stuff that support you and your
values. And so, we want to create that
database of bunch of really cool
businesses, platform them, and go in
that direction. And the second is like
provide information. And third is just,
you know, change your behavior. Let's
give you rewards. Let's empower you as a
whole.
>> Makes sense. Yeah. How did you uh get
that large distribution? Because
obviously like you know you can build a
good of a product as you can but then if
people aren't using it if it or people
aren't downloading it then it's not
going to have much impact as all like
how did that going to happen because you
scale very quickly like as soon as you
launched like how did that come about?
Yeah, it was actually crazy. I think
Allah's blessing, right? That's the
biggest thing. I I I can't take any
credit for anything that's happened.
Like my life has changed so much and
boycott brand has changed so much.
>> But it's simply just like I want to help
people. Allah is providing the way to do
it. And so, you know, in a practical
approach, it's social media.
>> As a founder, you have to build in
public. Like anything consumer build in
public. It'll go viral. Someone will hit
it up. Press hit me up. You know, it's
just like, you know, once you start
building for others and like all opens
up the doors, the opportunity came like
the right person hit retweet, the right
person hit share, the right person put
on their story and just kept going and
going and going and first day $1,000,
first month 20,000 downloads and then,
you know, next month $100,000. It's
crazy exponential growth.
>> That's amazing. Yeah. What's the what's
the kind of plan now or say like you
know you've kind of had this core
product um you know you kind of
mentioned like you know the different
kind of services um that's in the app
right now like what's the plan for the
next 5 years with the boycott app the
next plan next five years is crazy so I
think when I think about Muslim economy
I think about individual community and
infrastructure at an individual level we
have to do our part whether it's us
starting a business whether it's us
doing you know collectively unifying
understanding and purchasing power
learning education
>> as a community we need to start
empowering ing each other and the
infrastructure is built for lasting
generations. Boycat isn't a short-term
play. The short-term play right now is
boycotting and helping people stand up
with Gaza against the oppressor.
>> But the medium-term play is can we start
building a Muslim alternative economy.
And the long-term play is can we build
enough infrastructure so that way the
next generation can use this economy and
expand and never rely on companies and
corporations that are against us. And
can they have a seat at the table where
decisions are made?
>> That's our goal. And so in the next five
years we want to move towards the
individual to that community and the
next 10 years we want to move toward the
infrastructure. Can we help build out
this ecosystem of you know businesses
and products and software and services
that we never have to rely on someone
else and we can rely on ourselves.
>> I think the really cool part is when we
say Muslim economy or Islamic economy we
don't mean it's catered only for the two
billion Muslims in the world. But the
true definition of what that means is
it's catered to everyone. It's the most
highly ethical possible. And I think
there's a distinction behind that. We
have too many Muslim products. There's
too many of them. We need more products
by Muslims
>> that just are meant for humanity.
>> Do you think it's more like a a branding
kind of issue? I I do feel like, you
know, as we're getting larger as well,
like, you know, Muslims do like to put
this Muslimic or Islamic kind of brand
on it. Do you think that's part of the
issue?
>> I think it definitely is because it Why
are you pigeon holing yourself right
away? M
>> just build it, build this conference,
build this product and market to
everyone, but show them that it's
Islamic run. And by that, what that
means is it's most ethical possible
aspect. And you know, as Muslims, we
should care about other people. We're
not supposed we're never supposed to be
pigeonhold.
>> Yeah.
>> One of my my friend my friends in
Medina. I was going through a period of
time where everyone goes through this
like, let's go to Hijra to Medina. Let's
avoid leave the West forever and you
know, abandon everything.
>> Cut off.
>> But and like I get Okay, so another
tangent. I get at least five DMs every
week. Can you build Muslim X? Can you
build Muslim Facebook? Can you build
Muslim? It's like no like we can't we
can't go into an echo chamber.
>> But my was like
>> Islam is not going to spread because I'm
sitting five times a day in prophets
like prophets must
>> right
>> it's going to spread because you're in
the west. You're in the public. You are
the example like example that people
need to see
>> that of what Islam is. So Islam can
spread.
>> We cannot be pigeon holed. We cannot be
shoved into a corner. We have to be out
there with everyone and building. And
you know, Islam is not like I think
there's multiple talking about this, but
dawa is not just through words. It's
through your actions.
>> And that's super important that we can
be out there building things, showing
people, communities, teams, whatever it
is. Like you don't have to build
software product, but showing that what
what a real Muslim is. We need to do
that because it has a bad connotation
right now.
>> Yeah. No, no, that makes sense. Just
going back to the the boycott story like
you know when you launched you're going
super viral um you know news outlets
were like hitting you up but during this
time um you also got a phone call at
work um which led to you you then
getting fired. What's the what's the
story behind that? Yeah. So,
alhamdulillah, I was Alazer, BBC,
Coallets or whatever reached out. They
platformed me. I was uh viral right
away. You know, I think 60 70 80 million
views in the first week on those
different platforms. And that really
took Boycat to the next level.
>> But what really what really really like
aligned there was a sacrifice that had
to come. I had a decision to make
basically and asked me this question a
lot to myself, but I'll ask it to you
after. But the story behind it was was
on the platform. Those interviews got
circulated in my work group chats
because someone saw it somewhere and
they started posting about hey look look
at our you know our buddy leading
product here doing whatever and then I
get a mystery performance review that
just happens and it's like no technical
skills no product growth mindset wasn't
helping the business achieve its goals
and it's funny because like no technical
skills is funny because I I taught
myself how to code in a month like you
know in November I built a product from
zero to one in December I launched it in
January it went viral and I think when
they fired me I was reaching peak users
at the time where I had more monthly
active users than they did. And that's
funny because all three of those things
are just, you know, garbage at that
point. But how it proved to me like
Allah open up the door just completely
get fired and leave and then pursue
something that's actually changing the
world.
>> Is it difficult for you because
obviously like you know you're used to
coming from that California Silicon
Valley like you know all your friends
are Google engineers or big tech
engineers or like you know they're
leaving to build you know billion dollar
like startups. Um whereas like you're
pursuing something that's a little bit
more purpose- driven and for the as well
like does it ever like tie you down that
you know perhaps that in this life that
you know you're not getting those kind
of worldly kind of gains like how do you
kind of shift your mentality to to kind
of push through that?
>> This world's so temporary man
>> like we're watching if you just watch
what's happening in Gaza and I know that
we're probably all desensitized to it
which is unfortunate.
>> There are kids that never got to see
their first birthday. There are kids
that never got to see their fifth
birthday. to see whatever the fact is
like you can leave at any point in time.
It may not be from, you know, a bomb
getting dropped on you. But if Allah
wants you, you're gone. You may never
wake up. And the reality is what is
forever. Forever is the next life. And
if you're not building towards that,
then what are you doing? But there's a
balance between that because there often
people like, let me just go build it for
the afterlife. Never build in this life.
And they leave their responsibilities
here.
>> But it's like you're supposed to build
towards both. the in surah Ysef it talks
about like wisdom and knowledge and and
how Ysef was able to like prophet Ysefam
was able to lead an economy and lead the
treasury right there's no arrogance or
thing that comes with it like he had to
lead a nation he had to be humbled in
jail and that's that's the beauty of it
it's like what I learned is there's so
much bodak being at the lowest point and
being stuck there than being able to
enjoy the riches of like this life and
so on from there like when you
understand that he had to be humbled and
be thrown into slave market and then
from there rise to the top and you know
do what you had to do. It was a full
mission.
>> It was never just like stay in jail for
the rest of your life and then that's
it. You'll go to Jenna. It was like no,
you're going to get the blessings,
you're going to get the right
opportunity, take them, build it, save
the like economy, save the nation, do
what you need to do and then leave the
nation. Like that's what you have to do.
>> And we have to learn how to do that.
It's a balance of understanding we have
to build for this life and the next.
It's never it's never mutually
exclusive.
>> And if you can find something that
builds for both, you're in the best
place.
>> Yeah. is not sufficient for us to just
you know go by our usual days you know
just do our prayer like we do actually
have to like strive for the next life at
the same time.
>> Yeah 100%.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I think it's hard in the west because
you have this mentality of you know
cutthroatenness.
>> Yeah.
>> But my trip to Australia pretty recently
I learned how authentic and genuine
people are and it's still a western
country quoteunquote and I went to
Malaysia, Singapore and places and more
eastern and um they're so authentic and
genuine people man. I just wish that
they learned how to build a little bit
and if you combine the two beauty beauty
parts of them, it's like they will
create the crazy new generation of
builders in the economy.
>> I'm sure there's like people watching
this who like inspired by your story and
but you know perhaps you know they don't
come from that tech kind of background.
Um but you know perhaps they want to
make some change you know they want to
build something they want to build like
some technology or some app. What's your
advice to them for getting started and
for like scaling something as well?
>> AI.
No re the real like true story man like
I told you November 2023 taught myself
how to code in a month
>> you know built something in December and
launched like that was it
>> but the beauty of it is like social
media and like look we're connected
because of social media
>> who would have thought a year and a half
ago that some kid from random California
and some kid from you know UK that ended
up moving to Dubai is going to be on a
podcast in 2025 like social media
connects you build in public talk about
what you're doing you know don't brag
but you know be humble in in how you
kind of go about things and understand
you have a role to play and then just
just do it. AI tools help a lot. YouTube
videos help a lot. Every most things
have been built in the past like you
just have to take inspiration and take
what works.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and and if you really want
inspiration, you really want like
motivation like take the prophet's story
like everything you need all answers
they're all there
whatever it is.
>> Is there a particular story or hadith
from the prophetam that you think about
a lot that you reflect upon a lot during
your own journey? I think one that
really reflected on this one
specifically was the story of the Hijra.
So when the prophet Abu Bakr went, they
had to stay in a cave to avoid the
people that were there and then they
finally got to
>> Medina.
>> There's actually a huge lesson in this
story and it's don't be super loud and
just charge head first into like
fighting quotequote oppression in the
world, right? And oftentimes I get the
question like, "Hey, are you ever
worried about being in public? Are you
worried about doing this?" And like
someone's from a corporate like, "Hey,
I'm kind of I really want to do
something, but I'm afraid for my
family." and so on from there. But it's
a balance, right? They didn't just run
straight from Makkah to Medina without
worry like, "Oh, I'm getting chased."
Whatever. It's going to happen. It's I'm
going to be strategic. I'm going to pick
the right person that comes with me. I'm
going to go hide in this cave and Allah
will take care of the rest.
>> And the beauty of that is that sometimes
you have to be stagnant. You have to be
strategic in how you approach these
things. And then when the opportunity
comes, you take it and go. But you have
to just trust Allah is going to take
care of everything that's out of your
control.
>> And there's an arrogance that we have
where we think 99.9% I can. I'm in like
God's in control. That 01% I can control
a little bit. I can control the outcome.
I can control when I get out this door.
I can control like when this tweet goes
live or whatever it is. But the reality
is you have to submit fully to that and
Allah will take care of the rest.
>> I heard the Israeli government try to
buy your app. What's the what's the
story behind that?
>> Okay. The crazy story is they launched
$150 million fund just to preserve their
image and help them out. Literally two
weeks after that happened, first offer
letter came. Second offer letter came
next week. Third offer letter came and
another fourth one. And then we recently
got two more like past two weeks.
>> I'm like, "Wow, I can't believe someone
wants to buy my company. Let me look
into this." And then you start diving
deeper into these companies and stuff
and they're all formed in 2025 somehow.
They all have the same street address or
whatever and they're all based out of
Tel Aviv. I'm like, "Wait, that's so
weird. Let's have some lawyers look into
one just to see what's going on." Have
some lawyers look into it. Get an offer
letter. Boom. Eight figure deal. I'm
like, whoa, I could retire my like
family with this, you know? It's like,
but then there's no butter in it, right?
>> And I would never want to sell out
people that have supported me and built
this thing and they're relying on me to
help not be the person that does it, but
maybe a pioneer in the space that helps
build the Muslim economy. And um, dude,
when you see that many zeros on a check,
dude, it's like
>> it tests you.
>> It tests you, man. But there's no
baraka. And um there's so many stories,
so many books about it. But the reality
is like Muslim and whatever. It's it's
not a business that I'm trying to build.
It's a contract I'm building with people
>> that I have to honor the contract. I
have to make sure we do things in the
right way because it's a short that
would be a short-term win, but it's not
a long-term win where we can create this
economy. We can prevent any oppression
from like happening in the world.
>> That's what we want to do.
>> Yeah. It's not been the only time that
we've got the wrong intention from the
uh Israeli government. Uh, I know that
you got targeted. Um, your app's been
targeted multiple times. It's been like
delisted on the app store. Uh, can you
talk to us a little bit about those
stories? Like, how did that come about?
>> Yeah. Yeah. If you if you don't have
haters, you're doing something wrong.
100%. Right. And I have the biggest
hater right now. So, if you go on
LinkedIn and you type in Boycat, you'll
see like 10 or 15 posts right off the
top that are just like random, you know,
Zionist and pro-Zionist people that are
like, "Hey, we need help right now.
There's this app called Boycat. It's
doing this amount of thing. It it has
this many millions of people on it." Um,
everyone go hit the three buttons on the
top right of the app store report error
and say this makes me feel like I'm
harassed or something that I there's an
actual post I tweeted about it went
viral. I will go back to her that lady's
post and there's like 50 comments of
people like you know
>> supporting boycat and saying choice
words to her and stuff like that. But
that's like one part of it. The second
part of it gets more serious where now
you're getting emails, letters, DMs that
are more death threats and like hey if I
ever see you this is going to happen if
whatever blah blah blah. It's like make
try stepping foot outside of America. I
got like you know we'll see what happens
things like that.
>> The next level is you know they try to
shut you down from in infrastructure
point like they work with Google. They
try to take things down reports whatever
blah blah blah and then alhamdulillah we
had the right connections. Allah
provided he protected us. Um met some of
my best friends that were able to you
know really help us out. One of them in
particular she really worked with the
trust and safety team to really make
sure that we were good.
>> Nice.
>> And now they'll never be able to touch
us at Google. And the next step is, you
know, buy us out, shut us down. And
there's a there's a future step which
I'm glad they never got to at a certain
point, but that's just shutting it down
completely and I'll disappear.
>> But in with all all these podcasts out
there, I'm a bit too highrofile now for
that to happen.
>> Nice. How do you how do you kind of view
those kind of like threats? Obviously,
it must not be nice the fact that, you
know, you have so much negativity thrown
at you. Obviously, you're a bit of a,
you know, higher profile kind of person
because you're obviously um doing some
activism work, you know, for your app
and, you know, you're talking about the
Palestinian cause. Yeah. I mean, how do
you like deal with that kind of
negativity? Like, you know, what's your
kind of like mental model to like push
through all of this?
>> That's tough. I think it's it was never
overnight. It was built.
>> The first thing that I think about when
you asked that question was I always get
a question saying like, are you ever
worried about your family?
>> Are you worried about your brothers and
sister? Like, I don't have sister, but
brothers. The answer to that is why does
someone that lives with me matter more
than the people in right now?
>> Obviously blood and ties and stuff like
that, but in Islam like we're all
together. Like that's my brother and
sister dying. That's my aunt and uncle
dying. That's my grandfather dying.
That's my grandmother dying. That's my
niece and nephew dying. So like my
family over there in Philippines is
already at risk at that point if you
consider it in that perspective. And
it's important that we have that
perspective because that'll let you
really make the right decisions. Yeah,
my brother and my mom, my dad are
important, but those people are also
just as important. The second thing that
I think about is although like in the
story of Ysef, he was stuck in jail for
quite a while time. It wasn't one night
he and then the dream came, he had to go
solve it. It was he was stuck there for
a while. And I like to equate my life as
much as I can to the story so I can draw
inspiration and kind of get out of the
rut. And so for me, I was quote unquote
stuck in a jail. I was stuck in the
corporate jail. I was stuck in a
comfortable situation which
alhamdulillah I wasn't a jail but I was
stagnant I wasn't fulfilled I was trying
to figure out what I need to do but
during that time a lesson that I really
really got into and I encourage everyone
to get into is like the practice of
>> taj
>> and that mental model of fighting
whatever desire you have especially in
winter to pull the sheets over go make
woodoo and go pray really drove
discipline into me and it really drove
like trust God he's going to take care
of everything you're going to talk to
He's going to talk about all your
worries. He's going to ease everything.
He's going to provide an outlet for
that. And over the years of me being
able to practice that and, you know,
being able to bring my friends along and
and family along to do those things, it
the mental model of trust God just
cemented in me. So like there's nothing
I worry about now. I'm like, if God
decides to take me, he has to take me.
If they if they try to do something and
God says no, it won't happen. And if
he's like, it's time for you to go and
they try something, that's it. That's
it. So it's simply just trust God and
understand like what forever is like
Jenna and the afterlife like that's all
we want we want to achieve right that's
what we need to achieve for and strive
for
>> this life is so short man it's so short
like look at us we're almost you know
30s and stuff hopefully in that in that
range mid 20s 30s blink of an eye we'll
be 50
>> another blink and you know we'll have
grandkids and shot another blink we'll
be gone
>> like this is it like do you remember
anyone from two years ago that in the
past. You have to think about that for a
little bit longer.
>> Yeah.
>> Like you you're not going to be
remembered. So just focus on the future
and focus on, you know, building now and
focus on what comes from there. That's
kind of my mental model.
>> Makes sense. Yeah. What have you learned
about yourself during the past couple
years?
>> I hate politics.
>> Some of the things I learned
um I learned that if you have Islam as a
center of everything you do, you're
going to be successful if not in this
life and the next. M
>> like when I watch people in Gaza and I
watch those people, it's like there's
multiple tweets about this. I'm going to
steal the quote, but pretend it's mine,
but it's like how do you defeat people
that know that death isn't end?
>> That's true. You can't, right? And so
whatever you do, it's like how can you
lose to someone that knows death is an
end? So you move in that direction, it's
like there's a forever out there. That's
what you need to do. Really build in
that direction. Um what was your
question again? Oh, lessons out there.
Sorry. That that's a big one. It's like
cement Islam is the center. The third
the second is like really just I learned
how patient I am and how dedicated I can
be but I also learned how fortunate I
am.
>> I don't have to worry about things being
dropped on my house. And um I realized
another really important thing is not
really not necessarily about myself but
I think about others is that as a
collective we have a lot of power.
>> And I think now we're having
discussions, we're talking about
building this economy, talking about
building this product and so on from
there. We never had that conversation 10
years ago. Um, some more lessons is like
understanding that there is a set right
time for everything. You're you're in
the right place at the right time
because Allah wanted you to be. All
right. And I think the last lesson that
I really internalized and like the
beauty of it is like I got closer to
Islam and like the Quran especially.
>> And one of the stories of prophet Mus
Alam post they were him and his people
were wandering for years. And that's
wild if you think about it. It's like
maybe he should have just achieved
victory like that. But their hearts
weren't ready for victory. And sometimes
as people we think about let's scale a
product let's grow as fast as we can.
Let's do what we need to do. And I
learned that you have to have the right
heart that has is that will be that will
accept the truth and accept the right
things that need to come so you can
build for the next generation.
>> And for me I'm at a kind of stage where
I had viral growth. But now I'm a little
stagnant on purpose. And I didn't
understand why I was choosing to be
stagnant a bit until I realized what it
was from a KPI perspective. I was like
let's focus on retention. Let's focus on
making sure people come back.
gamification and things like that. From
an Islamic perspective, I was looking at
it like if we grow too fast right now,
we're not building up the right trust,
the right values, the right authority in
the space
>> for everything and making sure the
people that are supporting us have the
right heart so we can build for the
generations to come.
>> But right now, what we're doing outside
of the KPI numbers is we're basically
getting to a point where we can prepare
ourselves for the next generation that
del that deserves that promised land.
Right? That's what we want to do. When I
say promised land, you know, building
that Muslim economy and the alternative
economy where we rely on ethics and
morals and we we put our money in the
right place.
>> Yeah, makes sense. What's your biggest
fear in this journey? What keeps you up
at night?
>> Obviously disappearing.
But I think the real real real things is
I think with anyone that gets a lot of
fame pretty quickly. I'm not saying I'm
famous, but you know going from a no one
to someone that you know can basically
call and FaceTime any shook in the world
any like most celebrities and stuff like
>> sometimes I wake up to like a random
celebrity follow me I'm like who are
you? Like how do you know me?
>> And like it's wild in that case. But I
think what one of my biggest things that
I'm trying to make sure my intention is
always really pure and I worry that at
some point that I could fall into those
traps of, oh, I don't need to take this
meeting. I don't need to talk to this
person. I'm a little bit better than
them. I think the arrogance of the
success is what I'm worried about. And I
try my best every every week to reign my
intention no matter what. So I never
feel like that. And I expect the people
around me to call me out if that ever
happens.
>> Um, I think my biggest fear is becoming
arrogant at some point.
>> Makes sense. if someone wants to support
this cause or support boycott um you
know how can they get in touch what
should they do
>> yeah um I get the question a lot I think
from an individual level it varies there
are people that have more capacity and
there people have less capacity if
you're on a lower capacity side sharing
following talking about boycott giving
it to your friends is really important
if you have medium capacity you can
support a little bit financially
becoming a member really helps because
as sad as it is even though we have a
you know a $10 million offer on the
table from you you know who
>> the Muslims don't want to back us
>> the the ethical people don't want to
back us and we have we've been
struggling to raise money because of
that and make this a full-time thing
because it needs to be a full-time thing
it needs to be something that I've
watched my bank account go from six
figures down to almost four figures
>> and I put all my own money into this
I've you know I try my best to like you
know pay my friends and do what I need
to do but that lack of support from a
financial perspective is real because we
can't build things for free we need to
build things that you know can sustain
itself outlive me and grow in that
direction. I'm not chasing money, by the
way. I'm chasing baraka. Yeah.
>> But at the same time, I need to provide
for my own family. I need to make sure I
take care of myself and so on from
there. So, buying memberships and and
helping donate and, you know, doing that
thing really helps a lot. And if you
have more capacity, investment is really
helpful. Like, we want to give back and
allow you to succeed as well. But, it's
a long-term play. It's not a short-term
play. You're not going to get your 100x
extra return like most, you know, VCs
expect in the first year. It's you're
going to get your 100x return in a
couple years, but we need to build like
infrastructure properly.
>> Yeah.
>> And if anyone wants to answer this
question for me, that'd be great. The
question is at what point and how much
do you balance building for the
community versus building for yourself?
>> Because when do you start prioritizing
yourself a little bit more? when you
start thinking oh I should focus on
marriage I should focus on getting kids
I should focus on this and taking like
physical care of my family like from
there versus there are people that just
choose to build for the community
selflessly and how do you balance that
>> yeah it's an interesting thought because
you know even if you look at some of the
companions like some of them you know
put off you know marriage or put off
having kids you know during the life of
the prophet sallallam you know they
would just emphasize their study and
their ibada maybe only after the prophet
sallallam passed away or you know
perhaps you know certain periods of
their life that they kind of like
decided to do that. But of course, you
know, that's the reason why they became
so high in status. You know, that's the
thing that, you know, put bar in their
life. Um, you know, so perhaps, you
know, that's, you know, my two cents of
advice to yourself as well. You know,
perhaps this is the time in your life
where you're kind of focusing on that
and that will open doors later on in
your life. Um, but yeah, I mean, I pray
that Allah continues to to put baraka in
this. So, if you can leave one message
to the audience to the Muslim um, what
would it be?
>> All right. I'm reading off my phone
because I have I I have a list of
oneliners and lessons that I just read
consistently and I don't want to mess
this up because it's so important. The
lesson that I want every single Muslim
out there to understand even if you're
not Muslim and if you're just trying to
build build like a prophet not for power
but for accountability. And
>> what that really means is that if you
look at it from a prophetic threads
perspective, the three prophets I talk
about the most and the ones that I
really draw inspiration from prophet yam
he didn't seek leadership or status he
said you know put me in charge of the
treasury because knowledge and
trustworthy you know out of humbleness
he acknowledged the gifts he had
>> he asked to rule but not to protect
necessarily right prophet Mus Alam he
didn't want spotlight he feared public
speaking he had a stutter but even then
Allah commanded him to go speak
And he needed his brother to be their
support. So he did what he had to do no
matter what. He built in a prophetic
way. Prophet Muhammad even when offered
king kingship he was asked do you want
to live like a king or do you want to
live like amongst your people like you
know the less fortunate. His goal was
never to own this world. His goal was to
guide it back to its purpose and focus
on the next. So with boycott I think I'm
not building for profit. I simply built
it because I couldn't not build it. If
that makes sense. There's an a mana that
we all have that we have to use our
talents, our skills and do what we have
to do that we're commanded to do no
matter what we want to do or not. I
think um don't build to be celebrated in
this life but be build to be held
accountable by by the day of judgment
>> because the future Muslim doesn't
necessarily need more CEOs. We need more
prophetic shepherds or stewards in that
sense.
>> Like we need people that focus on
building with an Islamic background.
doesn't necessarily mean you have to
build the next prayer app or the next
kibla finder that we have a billion of
those already. It's build the next thing
that we as a community, we as a humanity
need and run it with the Islamic
principles.

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