Bill Thompson on Android Security, Surveillance & Spartan Forge

This article is based on a conversation with Bill Thompson, a former military intelligence operator, covering topics from cybersecurity and government surveillance to the inefficiencies of government and the development of his hunting app, Spartan Forge.

New Merch Drop

Bill Thompson announced the launch of new merchandise on mwmerch.com, available for only six days. The collection features upgraded quality blanks and a "bursting heart" design with Japanese text. He humorously warned that girlfriends might steal the new hoodie. Once the six-day period ends, the items will be permanently sold out and never reprinted.

Android vs. Apple: A Philosophical Stance

Thompson uses a Samsung Galaxy Fold, preferring Android over Apple for philosophical reasons. He explained that the Android operating system, specifically the Android Open Source Project (AOSP), is publicly available. This open-source nature allowed him, during his time developing implants and zero-days for the military, to examine the phone's inner workings, understand its vulnerabilities, and even dump his own phone's data. This capability was crucial for security, especially when traveling to countries where his phone might be compromised.

He contrasted this with Apple's closed architecture, which he believes makes it difficult for individuals to scrutinize potential vulnerabilities. While some argue a closed system is more secure if you trust the company, Thompson prefers the ability to inspect the system himself.

The Patriot Act and Government Surveillance

The conversation touched upon the Patriot Act and its implications for accessing personal data. Thompson noted that the act, despite predating modern smartphones, was broadly written to cover telephonic infrastructure, effectively future-proofing it for new technologies. He described it as a "usurpacious" piece of legislation, allowing for significant government overreach.

He then delved into the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), describing the FISA court as a "kangaroo court" near Fort Meade, Maryland. This court, he explained, allows intelligence agencies to obtain warrants for surveillance without public scrutiny, often based on minimal justification.

Government and Tech Companies: Formal and Informal Relationships

Thompson stated that there are both formal and informal interfaces between government agencies and major tech companies like Meta and OpenAI.

• Formal Relationships: These involve overt agreements, such as Memorandums of Understanding (MOUs) or Memorandums of Agreement (MOAs), where companies agree to cooperate with the government in cases of terrorism or other threats.
• Informal/Clandestine Relationships: These involve governments recruiting individuals within tech companies. Thompson outlined the "triumvirate" of factors considered when recruiting a spy:
  • Placement: Does the individual work in the target organization?
  • Access: Do they have access to the desired information?
  • Motivation/Susceptibility: Are they motivated to share information (e.g., financial need, blackmail)?
  • Accessibility: Can the recruiter access them outside the organization?

He explained that if one "Five Eyes" intelligence partner (e.g., the US) cannot directly recruit someone due to legal restrictions (like the Bill of Rights), another partner (e.g., the UK) might, and the information would then be shared.

Minimization Procedures

Thompson discussed "minimization procedures," a process designed to protect US persons from inadvertent collection of intelligence. If a US person's data is accidentally collected, there's a process to minimize their exposure. However, he noted that this process often moves "conveniently slow" and can be another vector for usurping rights. He acknowledged that some in government, like Rand Paul, are fighting against these practices, but legislative change is slow due to the government's "behemoth" nature and the rapid pace of technological advancement.

Government Incompetence and DARPA

Thompson characterized the US government as largely incompetent, with a few exceptions. He highlighted DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) as one such competent organization, where he advised for several years. DARPA's role is to fund "holy shit ideas," often knowing that the primary goal might not be achieved, but hoping for valuable spin-offs. He used the analogy of funding a rocket to Mars that fails but leads to the development of a new, lighter carbon fiber, which then enters the free market. He noted that while DARPA was more impactful in earlier decades when private funding for large-scale innovation was less common, it remains a useful organization.

Human Hacking vs. Software Hacking

Thompson distinguished between human intelligence (gathering intelligence through human sources) and "ethical hacking" (exploiting computer systems). He explained that "zero-days" are vulnerabilities that are discovered but not immediately used, kept "in case of emergency."

When targeting information systems, the choice between software and human hacking depends on budget, infrastructure fortification, and operational security. He listed various intelligence disciplines within the DoD:

• MASINT (Measurement and Signature Intelligence): Measuring and analyzing signals.
• FISINT (Telemetry Intelligence): Intercepting data from aircraft or spacecraft.
• ELINT (Electronic Intelligence): Intercepting and parsing electronic signals from radars.
• COMINT (Communications Intelligence): Intercepting communications.
• CYBER: Cyber operations.
• OSINT (Open-Source Intelligence): Gathering information from publicly available sources.

He stated that recruiting humans within an organization is almost always cheaper (95% of the time) than hacking technology, especially if the target has "loose morals" or specific vulnerabilities (e.g., a family member needing expensive medical treatment). This involves classic spycraft: building rapport, recruiting, and paying sources.

Forensic Exploitation

Thompson also discussed "forensic exploitation," which involves using technological means (like GPS data from a phone) to verify that a human source is following instructions and not being compromised. This combines signals intelligence and computer network operations to support human intelligence targeting.

Pegasus Spyware

He identified Pegasus, a persistent implant for phones, as one of the "gnarliest exploits." Early versions required the target to click a link, often through a phishing attempt disguised as a message from a known contact. Pegasus was particularly insidious because it stored itself in an obscure part of the phone, making it difficult to detect even with forensic analysis. Thompson believes it was developed by the Israelis, highlighting their advanced tradecraft.

Asymmetric Warfare and Technological Adaptation

The conversation shifted to asymmetric warfare, where adversaries adapt quickly to new technologies and countermeasures. He cited examples:

• Pagers: Terrorist groups reverted to pagers when smartphones became insecure, leading to the "pager bomb" incident.
• IEDs: Improvised Explosive Devices evolved from primitive pressure sensors to command-detonated devices, then to garage door openers operating on specific frequencies, and eventually back to wired systems.
• Drones in Ukraine: Cheap drones with plastic explosives were used to exploit tank weaknesses, leading to tanks being fitted with protective cages. This, in turn, led to the use of EMP blasts, and then to physical cords to counter EMPs.

Thompson noted that militaries, built for symmetric threats, struggle to pivot as quickly as asymmetric adversaries who are not bound by conventions like the Geneva Conventions.

Government Inefficiency and Budget Cycles

Thompson criticized government inefficiency, particularly the budget cycle. He described how agencies are often forced to spend their entire allocated budget by the end of the fiscal year, regardless of actual need, to avoid budget cuts in the future. This leads to wasteful spending and a focus on budget execution rather than achieving objectives efficiently. He recounted his experience advising a two-star general on offensive cyber development, where the primary driver was spending the budget, not necessarily meeting the president's requirements.

AI in Hacking

Regarding the role of AI in hacking, Thompson believes it's becoming robust, especially for generating mundane or less elegant code. He envisions AI being used to analyze technical dumps of devices (routers, firmware, software) to quickly identify vulnerabilities, a process that previously took months or even years. He suspects that organized crime is already using AI to hack phones, banking systems, Bitcoin, and betting platforms.

He explained that AI's recent advancements are due to increased computing power (GPUs, tensor processing units) and vast training data (from the internet). He warned that individuals and organized crime groups can train their own AI models without guardrails, using their own exploit repositories.

Understanding Human Behavior: Intelligence Operators vs. Civilians

Thompson, trained in human intelligence, discussed the skills involved in recruiting and handling sources. He noted that while many can learn the "how" of recruitment, a separate class of "artisans" possesses an innate ability to quickly understand and motivate individuals. He compared this to Joe Rogan's ability to "suss people out."

He categorized human intelligence sources by their "placement and access":

• Category 3/4 (Low Value): A gate guard who can provide access or a security card.
• Category 1 (High Value): Someone like a defense secretary, requiring an "artisan" recruiter who can create circumstances and navigate complex situations.

He suggested that the increasing digital footprint makes it harder to recruit high-value targets, similar to how forensics has made it harder for serial killers to operate undetected. This has led to more sophisticated "cover" operations, where intelligence agencies might establish entire companies to create a plausible identity for an operative.

The Most Surveilled Human and Epstein

When asked about the most surveilled human, Thompson initially suggested Elon Musk but then refined his answer, stating that intelligence agencies would likely target those around Musk due to his inaccessibility.

He then discussed Jeffrey Epstein, noting that while many speculate about his connections to intelligence agencies, he would have been a "nightmare" to manage as a source due to his public profile and existing legal issues. He recounted a friend's conversation with Israeli intelligence, where the Israeli operative expressed insult at the suggestion that they would recruit someone as "unsophisticated and ungraceful" as Epstein, especially after his legal troubles.

Government's Role in Creating Enemies

Thompson argued that governments often create or amplify "straw man" enemies to justify budgets and operations. He cited the example of the FBI's focus on white supremacy, suggesting that if genuine white supremacist activity is insufficient to justify the budget, federal agents might infiltrate or even instigate such groups. He drew parallels to Al Sharpton, who, after the decline of overt racism in the 90s, had to "search for racism" to maintain his relevance. This, he argued, is a fundamental problem with government: agencies, once established, perpetuate their existence by creating the very problems they were designed to counter.

The "Self-Licking Ice Cream Cone" of Government

He extended this critique to other areas, including "Big Pharma," which he believes profits from treating symptoms rather than promoting cures or lifestyle changes. He suggested that while some innovations like Ozempic might offer a quicker path to desired outcomes (like weight loss), the underlying incentive structure of profit-driven industries can lead to perverse outcomes.

Thompson expressed concern that the constant influx of information and conflicting narratives can lead to public confusion and apathy, which he believes could be a desired outcome for those in power.

Personal Journey and Spartan Forge

Thompson shared his personal story, growing up in North Dakota with a challenging family background. He joined the military to escape his circumstances, finding purpose and meaning. He later re-enlisted to preserve the "American experiment," inspired by the writings of Montesquieu, John Locke, and Cicero.

After leaving the military, he channeled his skills into creating Spartan Forge, a hunting app. He explained that his military experience in "variable analysis for commanders" (understanding targets) translated directly to helping hunters.

Spartan Forge Features:

• Neural Network for Deer Movement Prediction: Uses GPS collar data from deer to predict their movement patterns, helping hunters with limited time.
• High-Resolution Imagery: Offers 5cm imagery, significantly better than Google Maps, allowing users to see ground details.
• Historical Imagery: Provides access to past imagery.
• LiDAR Data: Creates 3D topographical maps, revealing paths under tree cover. This was used by first responders during a hurricane to find hidden trails and deliver aid.
• Blue Force Tracker: Allows users to drop pins and share locations, useful for organizing hunts or for safety.
• Cyber Scout: An AI-powered assistant trained specifically on hunting information, offering guidance on tasks like tuning a bow or hunting an area.

Thompson emphasized that the app's goal is to demystify the woods, get people outdoors, and reduce the risks associated with hunting, especially for those with limited time. He takes pride in stories of fathers and sons using the app to successfully hunt and create lasting memories.

He concluded by inviting listeners to visit SpartanForge.ai or download the app, noting that he personally answers all social media messages and complaints.